I found this thread. But it's rather old and contains no firm information about a Criterion release in 2007.jorencain wrote: There was some news about it on some incarnation of this forum, so you can feel free to do a search for that.
Rainer Werner Fassbinder
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Andre Jurieu
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:38 pm
- Location: Back in Milan (Ind.)
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Lemmy Caution
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 am
- Location: East of Shanghai
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godardslave
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:44 pm
- Location: Confusing and open ended = high art.
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kieslowski_67
- Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:39 pm
- Location: Gaithersburg, Maryland
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sevenarts
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 11:22 pm
- Contact:
I just watched Chinese Roulette tonight, and I think it may have crystallized some of my ideas about Fassbinder that I've gotten from the handful of other films I've watched by him. There's a quote in the booklet essay in Wellspring's DVD that perfectly sums up how I was feeling throughout this film, and I think it applies equally well to the other Fassbinders I've seen: "a queasy feeling between stifled laughter and embarassed empathy."
That's just EXACTLY it: the comedy in this film (which is, incidentally, the most broadly funny I've seen from RWF) arises from the patheticness of the characters, so in effect you're caught laughing for a few moments before you realize that what you've just seen is in actuality kind of sad. The characters do it, too: they laugh at the most inappropriate moments, then seem to catch themselves up and return to the sobriety the occasion really calls for. I think it's this uneasiness, this in-between state that really never settles into any one pole, is what makes Fassbinder's films so difficult to approach. I remember on my first approach to his work (Fear Eats the Soul) I was largely puzzled even as I was drawn in by something I couldn't quite put my finger on. Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant only increased my puzzlement, since the film seemed even more offputting and less engaging, and yet I still felt that there was something indefinable there. So I returned a third time for In a Year of 13 Moons, and something just clicked, the mix of willful absurdity and shockingly extreme emotions really got to me -- it remains one of the most deeply affecting films I've ever witnessed.
I can't say Chinese Roulette had the same awe-inspiring effect on me, but I did connect to it for many of the same reasons that I did to 13 Moons. It even had a similarly delirious dance scene, and I must say I was very pleasantly shocked to hear Fassbinder's countrymen in Kraftwerk on the soundtrack, especially for such a delightful and enigmatic scene as Macha Meril's dance on crutches. In fact, the film was so filled with uncomfortable little moments of humor and lightness like this that the presence of the gun in the second half comes into the narrative as a complete shock of darkness foreshadowing the ultimate catastrophe.
I also have to remark on the visual style of the film, which is nothing short of stunning. Mirrors and windows play a huge role in this visual design, and each set is laid out with many clear cases and tables strewn around the floor. The effect is a kind of filtering of perception, particularly in the ensemble scenes with the multiple characters cagily pacing around each other, forming and then dissolving little cliques, exchanging barbed words and doing everything possible to say as little as possible about what they're feeling. In these scenes, nobody sees each other clearly through all the distorting glass, and despite all the mirrors nobody really sees themselves all that clearly either. The only character who really looks at himself is Gabriel, as he's pulling out his manuscript to read at supper -- and with the final revelation about his writing that comes at the end of the film, that glance takes on a new relevance, a new meaning of self-recrimination and disgust. There are several sequences in which reflections provide a doubling-up, including a memorable shot in which Anna Karina's eyes appear to be glancing back at her own face. Elsewhere, all the glass distorts the image, showing only fragmented parts of bodies or faces, often as the characters align themselves into iconic tableaux. The actual "chinese roulette" scene, with its constantly rotating camerawork, shifting characters, and the build-up of tension wholly through close-ups on faces, is a masterpiece of visual storytelling.
I'm still more than a little puzzled by the ending, although I get that one of the points of the film is that there is so much hatred and complicated emotion seething through that house that basically anybody could've shot anyone else and it would make about equal sense. Still, the revelation that the house is called Traunitz Manor certainly threw me for a loop (did anyone else catch this? huh???), and I'm not too sure what was up with that procession outside the house and the religious singing... Still, that confusion and ambiguity seems to be an intrinsic part of the Fassbinder's work. Although he adopts many of the conventions of the Hollywood melodrama, he seems entirely unwilling to deliver a wholly satisfying narrative, preferring to subvert it in subtle ways in order to increase the disorientation of his style. Perhaps all this confusion is only meant to get this very discourse started, whereas a more conventional resolution might have lent itself to more traditional psychological readings that stopped at the surface.
That's just EXACTLY it: the comedy in this film (which is, incidentally, the most broadly funny I've seen from RWF) arises from the patheticness of the characters, so in effect you're caught laughing for a few moments before you realize that what you've just seen is in actuality kind of sad. The characters do it, too: they laugh at the most inappropriate moments, then seem to catch themselves up and return to the sobriety the occasion really calls for. I think it's this uneasiness, this in-between state that really never settles into any one pole, is what makes Fassbinder's films so difficult to approach. I remember on my first approach to his work (Fear Eats the Soul) I was largely puzzled even as I was drawn in by something I couldn't quite put my finger on. Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant only increased my puzzlement, since the film seemed even more offputting and less engaging, and yet I still felt that there was something indefinable there. So I returned a third time for In a Year of 13 Moons, and something just clicked, the mix of willful absurdity and shockingly extreme emotions really got to me -- it remains one of the most deeply affecting films I've ever witnessed.
I can't say Chinese Roulette had the same awe-inspiring effect on me, but I did connect to it for many of the same reasons that I did to 13 Moons. It even had a similarly delirious dance scene, and I must say I was very pleasantly shocked to hear Fassbinder's countrymen in Kraftwerk on the soundtrack, especially for such a delightful and enigmatic scene as Macha Meril's dance on crutches. In fact, the film was so filled with uncomfortable little moments of humor and lightness like this that the presence of the gun in the second half comes into the narrative as a complete shock of darkness foreshadowing the ultimate catastrophe.
I also have to remark on the visual style of the film, which is nothing short of stunning. Mirrors and windows play a huge role in this visual design, and each set is laid out with many clear cases and tables strewn around the floor. The effect is a kind of filtering of perception, particularly in the ensemble scenes with the multiple characters cagily pacing around each other, forming and then dissolving little cliques, exchanging barbed words and doing everything possible to say as little as possible about what they're feeling. In these scenes, nobody sees each other clearly through all the distorting glass, and despite all the mirrors nobody really sees themselves all that clearly either. The only character who really looks at himself is Gabriel, as he's pulling out his manuscript to read at supper -- and with the final revelation about his writing that comes at the end of the film, that glance takes on a new relevance, a new meaning of self-recrimination and disgust. There are several sequences in which reflections provide a doubling-up, including a memorable shot in which Anna Karina's eyes appear to be glancing back at her own face. Elsewhere, all the glass distorts the image, showing only fragmented parts of bodies or faces, often as the characters align themselves into iconic tableaux. The actual "chinese roulette" scene, with its constantly rotating camerawork, shifting characters, and the build-up of tension wholly through close-ups on faces, is a masterpiece of visual storytelling.
I'm still more than a little puzzled by the ending, although I get that one of the points of the film is that there is so much hatred and complicated emotion seething through that house that basically anybody could've shot anyone else and it would make about equal sense. Still, the revelation that the house is called Traunitz Manor certainly threw me for a loop (did anyone else catch this? huh???), and I'm not too sure what was up with that procession outside the house and the religious singing... Still, that confusion and ambiguity seems to be an intrinsic part of the Fassbinder's work. Although he adopts many of the conventions of the Hollywood melodrama, he seems entirely unwilling to deliver a wholly satisfying narrative, preferring to subvert it in subtle ways in order to increase the disorientation of his style. Perhaps all this confusion is only meant to get this very discourse started, whereas a more conventional resolution might have lent itself to more traditional psychological readings that stopped at the surface.
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David Ehrenstein
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am
Jim Clark's review of Beware of a Holy Whore is excellent and exceptionally well-detailed. Back in the early 70's I saw The American Friend, The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant, Why Does Heer R. Run Amok?, The Mercahnt of Four Seasons, Fontaine Effi Briest and Beware of a Holy Whore in the same week. It was Beware that convinced me that RWF was a major artist -- specifically for the scene of Lou Castel and hanna Schygulla dancing to "Let's Go Get Stoned."
RWF's relationship to Werner Schroeter was (as with everyone of talent) quite complex. At the time of this film they were friends. In interviews he always supported him. Then at the last he wrested Querelle (a film Schroeter had longed to make) away from him.
Lou Castel is a very great and very important actor who hasn't recieved his due. His performance in Bellochio's Fist in the Pocket is as seminal as Leaud's in The Mother and the Whore. That's one of the reasons Garrel co-starred castel and Leaud in his The Birth of Love.
Back in the mid-60's Bertolucci had a project called Natura Contra Natura in which he hoped to star Leaud, Castel and Allen Midgette.
Never got made, alas.
RWF's relationship to Werner Schroeter was (as with everyone of talent) quite complex. At the time of this film they were friends. In interviews he always supported him. Then at the last he wrested Querelle (a film Schroeter had longed to make) away from him.
Lou Castel is a very great and very important actor who hasn't recieved his due. His performance in Bellochio's Fist in the Pocket is as seminal as Leaud's in The Mother and the Whore. That's one of the reasons Garrel co-starred castel and Leaud in his The Birth of Love.
Back in the mid-60's Bertolucci had a project called Natura Contra Natura in which he hoped to star Leaud, Castel and Allen Midgette.
Never got made, alas.
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John Cope
- Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:40 pm
- Location: where the simulacrum is true
I'm in agreement with David on the merits of Querelle. But I'd go one further and say that it is, in fact, a great film, one with an almost inexhaustible richness and profundity.
For those interested, Steven Shaviro writes about this film at length in his excellent study, The Cinematic Body. I can say without hesitation that it's one of the finest pieces of film writing I've ever had the pleasure to read.
For those interested, Steven Shaviro writes about this film at length in his excellent study, The Cinematic Body. I can say without hesitation that it's one of the finest pieces of film writing I've ever had the pleasure to read.
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David Ehrenstein
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am
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Lino
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:18 am
- Location: Sitting End
- Contact:
Finally someone! I was beginning to be seriously worried about my love for this film -- practically noone here seems to like it. It was my first Fassbinder and to this day I find it a mesmerizing experience. Yes, it's a departure from his style but just think where he could have gone from there.John Cope wrote:I'm in agreement with David on the merits of Querelle. But I'd go one further and say that it is, in fact, a great film, one with an almost inexhaustible richness and profundity.
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David Ehrenstein
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:30 am
Not that much of a departure. Stylization was part of his work from early on. In Querelle it reaches a new level. When a lit match is held in relation to the candelabra in the background we're on another planet -- Planet Tom of Finland, where giant stone cocks loom over everything.
Clearly Fassbinder had had enough of this world and wanted to create another one. Interesting that Gunther kaufman. Once the love of his life -- the shooting of Whity became a debacle not because of lack of funds but because Rainer was "crazy in love mister!" (as Katina Paxinou says in Mr. Arkadin) with Gunther. The film itself is dedicated to another great love, El Hedi Ben Salem (Ali in Fear Eats the Soul )who, doing life for murder had just hung himself in prison.
Clearly Fassbinder had had enough of this world and wanted to create another one. Interesting that Gunther kaufman. Once the love of his life -- the shooting of Whity became a debacle not because of lack of funds but because Rainer was "crazy in love mister!" (as Katina Paxinou says in Mr. Arkadin) with Gunther. The film itself is dedicated to another great love, El Hedi Ben Salem (Ali in Fear Eats the Soul )who, doing life for murder had just hung himself in prison.
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Lemmy Caution
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 am
- Location: East of Shanghai
Well, my Fassbinder viewing hasn't quite kicked into 2nd gear yet. I did watch Love is Colder Than Death. An interesting film, something like Fassbinder's take on Breathless, filmed with alot of quirky theater mannerisms.
I still have the early Fassbinder's (Martha, Whity and Pioneers) to delve into. But today I hit an absolute bonanza. Bought 11 Fassbinder films put out by Manga Films of Spain. Hoss and Little Joe helped me carry them to the door. Did Fassbinder make any westerns?
My Fassbinder Catch o' the Day:
They had 4 others which I already own (Martha, Love is Colder, Whity, Fear Eats the Soul) and one other was sold out.
Also picked up Godard's Sympathy for the Devil; Bunuel's La Joven (The Young One); and Cocteau's The Eagle Has Two Heads.
Making this one of the best days for scoring Dvd's in a while.
[Just watched the Bunuel first, and that is a masterful film].
I need to sort out the Fassbinders. And decide on an approach. But very excited about Fox; Effi; Chinese Roulette. Will have to read thru this whole thread again.
I still have the early Fassbinder's (Martha, Whity and Pioneers) to delve into. But today I hit an absolute bonanza. Bought 11 Fassbinder films put out by Manga Films of Spain. Hoss and Little Joe helped me carry them to the door. Did Fassbinder make any westerns?
My Fassbinder Catch o' the Day:
- Niklausen Journey
The Third Generation
Mutter Kusters
Gods of the Plague
The American Soldier
Chinese Roulette
Effi Briest
Satan's Brew
Bitter Tears of Petra van Kant
Fox and His Friends
In A Year with 13 Moons
(I have this already, but felt the need for a back-up copy)
They had 4 others which I already own (Martha, Love is Colder, Whity, Fear Eats the Soul) and one other was sold out.
Also picked up Godard's Sympathy for the Devil; Bunuel's La Joven (The Young One); and Cocteau's The Eagle Has Two Heads.
Making this one of the best days for scoring Dvd's in a while.
[Just watched the Bunuel first, and that is a masterful film].
I need to sort out the Fassbinders. And decide on an approach. But very excited about Fox; Effi; Chinese Roulette. Will have to read thru this whole thread again.
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Rich Malloy
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:29 pm
- Location: Boston MA
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Lemmy Caution
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:26 am
- Location: East of Shanghai
Danke, cowboy. Just watched Whity. A little strange to see a German language Western. Interesting to see Günther Kaufmann as a featured performer, whereas I'm only familiar with him as a bit player from other (later) Fassbinder films. Whity really covers just about all of Fassbinder's main themes and concerns. A very compressed and interesting psycho-sexual melodrama.
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Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:58 pm
I thought you all might enjoy some screencaps from the R1 release of The Third Generation. It looks very good to me. A little ghosting, but not to the point of distraction (i.e. it's not on every single frame with movement). The disc comes in a very lovely case (clear Amaray) with a slipcase.
Last edited by Matt on Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lino
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:18 am
- Location: Sitting End
- Contact:
The US disc that I have is anamorphic and has both english and french dubs. Supposedly a better transfer has surfaced in Italy recently on DVD but it only has the italian and english dubs. It does however has an interview with Franco Nero, a piece by Wenders on Fassbinder and the trailer. Review here.
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blindside8zao
- Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:31 pm
- Location: Greensboro, NC
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spencerw
- Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:01 am
This comes from a Super Happy Fun newsletter issued a couple of hours ago
Fans of sci-fi rejoice! Our good friend from Germany, murmelwurmel, has provided us with subtitles to the first part of Rainer Werner Fassbinder's German TV adaptation of Daniel F. Galouye's SIMULCRON-3, WELT AM DRAHT (WORLD OF WIRES). The basis for quite a few modern day sci-fi films such as THE MATRIX, DARK CITY, EXISTENZ, THE CELL, and OPEN YOUR EYES (THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR was another direct adaptation), WORLD OF WIRES is a must-see flick. We hope to have the subtitles to Part 2 done in the fall. But, for now, part one is availble individually for a reduced price. Enjoy!
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Gordon
- Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:03 pm
I got that message when I successfully cancelled my order.
I saw The Thirteenth Floor a few weeks and I was impressed; one of the best sci-fi films of recent years. But Fassbinder's vision will be something quite different and will likely be more challenging. Like most Fassbinder fans, I have been looking forward to seeing this film for years.
I saw The Thirteenth Floor a few weeks and I was impressed; one of the best sci-fi films of recent years. But Fassbinder's vision will be something quite different and will likely be more challenging. Like most Fassbinder fans, I have been looking forward to seeing this film for years.
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Matt
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:58 pm
So, this book was the basis of every story in which someone enters an alternate reality? I guess that makes L. Frank Baum a time-traveling plagiarist.spencerw wrote:This comes from a Super Happy Fun newsletter issued a couple of hours ago
Fans of sci-fi rejoice! Our good friend from Germany, murmelwurmel, has provided us with subtitles to the first part of Rainer Werner Fassbinder's German TV adaptation of Daniel F. Galouye's SIMULCRON-3, WELT AM DRAHT (WORLD OF WIRES). The basis for quite a few modern day sci-fi films such as THE MATRIX, DARK CITY, EXISTENZ, THE CELL, and OPEN YOUR EYES (THE THIRTEENTH FLOOR was another direct adaptation), WORLD OF WIRES is a must-see flick. We hope to have the subtitles to Part 2 done in the fall. But, for now, part one is availble individually for a reduced price. Enjoy!
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Gordon
- Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:03 pm
Eh? Where are you getting that from? All it says is that Galouye's 1964 novel was the first to present the notion that the 'reality' of 'the world' is created by super-computer. Dark Universe is also a great novel, but that Van Diesel film, Pitch Black seems to have ripped off the premise.matt wrote:So, this book was the basis of every story in which someone enters an alternate reality? I guess that makes L. Frank Baum a time-traveling plagiarist.
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Scharphedin2
- Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 11:37 am
- Location: Denmark/Sweden
I know that it has been posted before somewhere in the forum, but I could not easily find it, and I am not sure that anyone has mentioned yet the extras to be featured on the upcoming Fassbinder releases from Arrow Films, so bear with me if this is old news (I think they are good enough to repeat):
To be released (tomorrow) August, 7th:
The Merchant of Four Seasons with "Women On Fassbinder" (58 min) and "Life, Love and Celluloid" (90 min).
Fear Eats the Soul with "Fassbinder In Hollywood" (50 min), "Life Stories" (50 min), "City Tramp" short (9 min) and Todd Haynes Interview on "Fear Eats the Soul" (15 min).
The Bitter Tears Of Petra Von Kant with "End of the Commune" (47 min) and "Interview with Harry Baer" (45 min)
The Marriage of Maria Braun with "The Little Chaos" short (9 min), "Florian Hopf on RWF" (35 min), "Fassbinder Frauen - the women of RWF" (35 min) and "Fassbinder Familia - Interactive biography of RWF's acting entourage."
Some of these featurettes and documentaries were featured on Criterion's Fassbinder releases ("Life Stories" for sure, and some of the other ones possibly under different titles).
The SRP for each disc is £ 19.99, and they will be bundled later on with a dozen other Fassbinder titles in a pair of Fassbinder Collections. Arrow's releases are usually of passable to good quality.
To be released (tomorrow) August, 7th:
The Merchant of Four Seasons with "Women On Fassbinder" (58 min) and "Life, Love and Celluloid" (90 min).
Fear Eats the Soul with "Fassbinder In Hollywood" (50 min), "Life Stories" (50 min), "City Tramp" short (9 min) and Todd Haynes Interview on "Fear Eats the Soul" (15 min).
The Bitter Tears Of Petra Von Kant with "End of the Commune" (47 min) and "Interview with Harry Baer" (45 min)
The Marriage of Maria Braun with "The Little Chaos" short (9 min), "Florian Hopf on RWF" (35 min), "Fassbinder Frauen - the women of RWF" (35 min) and "Fassbinder Familia - Interactive biography of RWF's acting entourage."
Some of these featurettes and documentaries were featured on Criterion's Fassbinder releases ("Life Stories" for sure, and some of the other ones possibly under different titles).
The SRP for each disc is £ 19.99, and they will be bundled later on with a dozen other Fassbinder titles in a pair of Fassbinder Collections. Arrow's releases are usually of passable to good quality.