I have no idea what this movie is, but that's certainly an attention-getting poster.
I can relate to your personal reaction here, as well as the skepticism of Bex's canceling attitude (as I think I've made quite clear on this board!) that reinforces a 'Chinese finger trap' anti-dialogue. I also think Levinson would candidly also agree on a personal level. What interests me so much about this film is that Levinson is more interested in the youth than the adults- who in the film are more like us in not being able to cope with these stressors of relentless judgment (i.e. the Mayor, Principal, Lily's parents, Joel McHale). I think Levinson admires the resilience of today's youth, he's inspired by it, and also using a subjective technique to plunge us into their experience, overstimulating us to the point where we're ready to erupt ourselves and saying, "See? This is what gen z youth are dealing with 24/7 every single day." I've put a lot of emphasis on the descent into chaos being an allegorically empowering tangible solution for these young people, but a large reason the milieu collapses into a social apocalypse is because the adults have a lower frustration tolerance for this ceaseless triggering from an unpoliced space (hence how law enforcers immediately resign their duties to protect and serve- exacerbating the Hobbesian freefall).colinr0380 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:10 amI think having a bit of a personal experience of being on the receiving end of personally-directed biased cruel comments is something that makes me understand the impulse to fight back yet also makes me recoil a bit from subjectively wallowing in anger and revenge as being a fully cathartic response. It is perhaps naive to say that treating people who make these kind of comments and behave in the way that they do as having any kind of a point at all just gives them power, and it would be much better to just let them do the greater damage to themselves instead by their toxic behaviour and ways of thinking, even if they do have the power to waterboard and/or hang you (or sell your family home)! It is incredibly difficult to have to just weather the storm until these kinds of people exhaust themselves and move on to their next object of interest (and I know how excruciatingly difficult that can be!), but caring too much about what people say on the spur of the moment can often become a person's own downfall.
I'd suggest a slightly tweaked reading of that, where the film may expose the tragedy of this 'loss' of confidence to us older folks (gen y and above), but the teens who are the main characters have been familiarized with this insecure space of infinite satiation, and a de-privatized state of being as expected conditions of life, from ground zero. That's why I've called this Gen Z's Rebel Without a Cause- it's a film that, I think, is actually way ahead of its time. Right now the majority of critics and moviegoers view this as an uncomfortably aggressive reminder of our recent acclimation to there being "no 'safe space' left to inhabit," but there is a sect of the population who already knows and feels this, and has become desensitized to this truth on a daily basis since practically birth. We are the parents in Ray's film, who don't "get" it and are processing our loss separate from the youth who grew up learning the language that we reject. The kids, on the other hand, are finally reaching their own breaking point after serving years of adaptive management, engaging in vulnerable psychosocial developmental stages in a milieu that's unforgiving and incongruous with the self-consciousness these innate phases of maturation provoke. I have a feeling that in about ten years or so this will be seen as an apt exhibition of this experience, that which some of us cannot fathom (I'll just speak for myself, but I can't completely part from my perspective of this as a 'loss' following my own development in a social context without such ubiquitous technology during formative years).colinr0380 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:10 am It's a film that is sort of about the betrayal of confidence in different forms, as people have their worlds upended by casual cruelties that make them realise that there is no 'safe space' left to inhabit. The online space that was once a place to explore different aspects of yourself, your sexuality, your personality and diary-like feelings about it all suddenly becomes public to all.
I have not see it, but you've caught my attention. Grabbing it today from my library!colinr0380 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 7:10 amI am curious if you have seen that 2013 Rob Zombie film The Lords of Salem? That film came to mind a lot whilst watching Assassination Nation as another film contemporising the Salem witch trials to a modern day setting (albeit all of Rob Zombie's 'modern day' films end up seeming as if they are set in the mid-1970s!). I certainly think they would make for an interesting double bill together!
I’d be curious to hear more about why you think so. Of course I moved this to the top of my queue, but found it overlong, trite, and aiming its narrative, character, and humor at the lowest hanging fruit for inspiration. Both are "self-aware" films about youth contending with a progressive social zeitgeist turning against them in regressive ways, but so are most dark comedies about youth these days. Do Revenge seemed comfortable taking its ‘Gen Z's Strangers on a Train’ pitch and adapting it into the contrived space of a buddy-outcast youth pic, and felt right at home with the tone of Booksmart et al. despite its faux-dark edge. Assassination Nation transcends the tone of dark comedy when its serious engagement with the material has no more space for laughs or youth-narrative contrivances, because the real-life contrivances provoking the characters and their surrogate viewers become too much to handle- so the film creates a new safe space for them to be liberated from those, ironically within another genre with more empowering possibilities inherent in its contrivances. I don’t expect every film to take its subjects’ experiences as seriously or be as self-reflexive as Levinson’s film, but I don’t think Do Revenge does anything more twisted than Heathers and its many kin.ntnon wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:09 pm Do Revenge on Netflix reminded me of how impressed I was by Assassination Nation. Very subversive and twisted.
The humour was broader, and the tone (and ending) much lighter, but I did not think it trite or superficial.therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:52 amI’d be curious to hear more about why you think so. Of course I moved this to the top of my queue, but found it overlong, trite, and aiming its narrative, character, and humor at the lowest hanging fruit for inspiration.
That's probably fair. I can't personally recall seeing many films - especially in this demographic - that so pointedly, by the halfway pointtherewillbeblus wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:52 amBoth are "self-aware" films about youth contending with a progressive social zeitgeist turning against them in regressive ways, but so are most dark comedies about youth these days. Do Revenge seemed comfortable taking its ‘Gen Z's Strangers on a Train’ pitch and adapting it into the contrived space of a buddy-outcast youth pic, and felt right at home with the tone of Booksmart et al. despite its faux-dark edge. Assassination Nation transcends the tone of dark comedy when its serious engagement with the material has no more space for laughs or youth-narrative contrivances, because the real-life contrivances provoking the characters and their surrogate viewers become too much to handle- so the film creates a new safe space for them to be liberated from those, ironically within another genre with more empowering possibilities inherent in its contrivances. I don’t expect every film to take its subjects’ experiences as seriously or be as self-reflexive as Levinson’s film, but I don’t think Do Revenge does anything more twisted than Heathers and its many kin.
If it had stayed there, and refrained from wilting back into the buddy-pic catharsis promised at the start, it would be a lot closer to Assassination Nation's ethos of fatalistic social alienation, even if not as subversive in its grammar.
Clearly I need to rewatch Assassination Nation rather than just recall vague feelings..!therewillbeblus wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2023 12:52 amDo Revenge seems to believe in the power of a moment when one woman says to another, “It sucks and it’s allowed to suck,” so much so that it allows the interaction to resolve a spiritual hole in an artificial space of the film, as if it's mirroring the potential of sustained real-life social catharsis via reciprocal contrition. Romantic B-plots can exist, stressors can be lifted, etc.
Assassination Nation obviously believes in the power of connection, but disallows affirmations to yield complacency or the hope of protracted reprieve, because it’s no match for the overstimulation of a Higher Cultural Power facilitating interminable isolation. It's legitimately self-conscious about the superficial tools it must use to engage with its authentic expressions, trapped like the characters, and that's what makes it subversive... If anything, it's movies like this that remind me how singular and brilliant and bravely aggressive a film like Assassination Nation is
Oh I think this is very common in mainstream movies.. you know, the "lesson" - and this film takes a safe progressive path to validate all sides without condoning specific actions. 'It's understandable to be angry, but also it mostly hurts you'; 'the allure of being popular and 'seen' is real and can blind us to poor behavior, but owning that poor behavior is the only path forward to connecting with your 'real' friends and growing as a person', etc. I felt like these played out almost exactly like they do in rom-coms or youth pics about peers in conflict, but maybe this one created a more convincing mirage that postures at being about revenge when it hardly has an interest?ntnon wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:21 pmSpoiler
Perhaps I was overly impressed that there was even an element of flipping roles - and there were several, albeit hardly revolutionary: revenge as a dangerous, all-consuming path, rather than just come-uppance; rising above being shamed by 'owning' poor behaviour; pretence becoming reality. Coupled with the more obvious (and, while 'trite' and predictable, still encouraging) themes of never being able to escape ones past - but accepting it - juxtaposed with attempted reinvention and, of course, personal improvement and friendship, I thought the mixture did another good job of just-barely heightened reality & mild warning.
ntnon wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:21 pm I can't personally recall seeing many films - especially in this demographic - that so pointedly, by the halfway pointSpoiler
Not only have the central 'villain' survive and thrive when their crimes are exposed (usually there's a setback, someone squashes the reveal or subverts it somehow), but also where the central heroine so clearly shown to be becoming the very thing she was setting out to punish and highlighted as a villain.
Maybe so. I certainly felt that it was less 'validating all sides' than attempting to show different perspectives. Many films attempt to humanise minor characters (even 'bad' ones); here I saw a greater attempt to show depth and compassion to (almost) all parties - as well as criticism of them all, too. It seemed more even-handed and quietly reassuring (and devastating) in the way it showed people being people rather than staid archetypes.therewillbeblus wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:11 pm I think this is very common in mainstream movies.. you know, the "lesson" - and this film takes a safe progressive path to validate all sides without condoning specific actions. 'It's understandable to be angry, but also it mostly hurts you'; 'the allure of being popular and 'seen' is real and can blind us to poor behavior, but owning that poor behavior is the only path forward to connecting with your 'real' friends and growing as a person', etc. I felt like these played out almost exactly like they do in rom-coms or youth pics about peers in conflict, but maybe this one created a more convincing mirage that postures at being about revenge when it hardly has an interest?
It was too long.therewillbeblus wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:11 pmI think this film attempted to justify its two-hour runtime by dragging out some of these elements..
I did think it was mildly amusing how the film exploited the way progressives can weaponize inclusivity to make anyone feel bad for judging their choices (including immoral and hurtful behavior!) The antagonist only secures a W through provoking self-preserving retreat from those initially trying to hold him accountable, because god forbid they get canceled by their peers. There’s a broad commonality with Assassination Nation, in that both films are handily progressive and yet throw shade at the dangers of extremist woke propaganda mishandled by privileged influencers (or the popular crowd here, who with a handle on social media, essentially fill that role) - which is the villainous threat within these liberal bubbles. Obviously the entire milieu is privileged via their inherent protection from being exposed to (far more scarily dangerous) conservative action, because like Booksmart, it doesn’t seem like anything but liberal politics exist in this world.ntnon wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 1:28 am And I certainly agree that the instigating moment was one that surely nobody would be daft enough to fall for... and yet, equally obviously, happens all the time.
Please don’t misinterpret that as a recommendation!ntnon wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:14 am That's at least the second mention of Booksmart.. I shall have to seek that out also.
Ha. No, indeed, but still...therewillbeblus wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:52 amPlease don’t misinterpret that as a recommendation!ntnon wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:14 am That's at least the second mention of Booksmart.. I shall have to seek that out also.