UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

[Finch]

nic mentioned on the other forum that Potemkine's Lost Highway 4k is actually well encoded in DV, so French customers can safely get it unless they already imported the Criterion which does not appear to exhibit the low pass filtering of some of their other discs.

[nicolas]

nic mentioned on the other forum that Potemkine's Lost Highway 4k is actually well encoded in DV, so French customers can safely get it unless they already imported the Criterion which does not appear to exhibit the low pass filtering of some of their other discs.

Thanks for noticing, I forgot to post it here as well. Also on the other forum is a comparison between the Turbine and Criterion UHDs of The Princess Bride and surprisingly the Criterion is mostly better.
Link: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=317
The Turbine has a 2.0 track though and apparently not a downmix of the 5.1. At the moment, I’d still say the winner is the Criterion until the disc issues are sorted out, although they don’t affect all customers.

[senseabove]

Really wish we could get some caps to compare, but I've yet to see a rip pop up on back channels.

Here you go.

Thanks! Seems like none of the usual sources have matching caps for those, so I'll try to pull them when I have time this week. At a glance, it doesn't seem like that significant of an increase in detail, though I'd imagine it would look better in motion...

[M-A]

Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but caps for Eagle's Red Heat 4K got uploaded and they blow the StudioCanal out of the water compression-wise:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=49 ... 1&i=0&go=1

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=65 ... 1&i=1&go=1

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=60 ... 1&i=9&go=1

[AxeYou]

Links to restoration details for each title, which are at the bottom of each page:

Walkabout
The Trial

From the restoration notes Chris posted, "NexSpec" instead of Pixelogic was credited for disc mastering on Criterion's Walkabout and The Trial. Is Criterion finally diversifying away from Pixelogic?

[M-A]

From the restoration notes Chris posted, "NexSpec" instead of Pixelogic was credited for disc mastering on Criterion's Walkabout and The Trial. Is Criterion finally diversifying away from Pixelogic?

Found this on LinkedIn

https://ibb.co/wLr6L33

I don't think we will be seeing any big changes with NexSpec

[AxeYou]

Great...

[Finch]

Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but caps for Eagle's Red Heat 4K got uploaded and they blow the StudioCanal out of the water compression-wise:

Is the grade on the 4ks faithful? I've never seen the film. Added the Eagle 4k to the superior import column.

[rrenault]

Does the Potemkine UHD of Lost Highway have forced French subs though?

[M-A]

Is the grade on the 4ks faithful? I've never seen the film. Added the Eagle 4k to the superior import column.

I think so. Admittedly, I don't know the film that well. I also forgot to mention that it is like the Eagle of Rambo III where the brief parts in Russian are not subtitled in English.

[nicolas]

Does the Potemkine UHD of Lost Highway have forced French subs though?

Technically yes. You can’t deactivate them in the disc menu but it’s possible with your player remote. In my case I have a Panasonic and it works via option, subtitles etc.

[Finch]

Natural Born Killers 4k vs 2008 BD (doublegulpshrimp says the later BD only looks a little better)

[nicolas]

I‘ve taken a look at the new UHD of The Pianist and detailed my first impressions on the other forum: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=100

[5meohd]

I'm chomping at the bit to hear about the Second Sight Crimes of the Future encode...

Has anyone seen a proper review, or notice of an incoming review?

I have the LE and only spot-checked it as I’ve rented the film earlier this year. As usual with Second Sight and Fidelity in Motion, it’s UHD at its finest. I don’t have the US Decal version which is apparently also surprisingly excellent after a very mediocre BD, so maybe it’s the same encode but in any way, Second Sight did a wonderful edition. Sound is also phenomenal like with It Follows.

Thanks. I went ahead and ordered it last week. It shipped yesterday, so maybe I can check it out over the weekend.

Cheers!

[Finch]

I‘ve taken a look at the new UHD of The Pianist and detailed my first impressions on the other forum: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=100

I was just going to link to that. Is the 4k bad enough to go into the "worse than the BD" tier?

[5meohd]

Is there any consensus on Walkabout? I'm prepping a hefty list of UHD titles I want to order IF and when CC does an October flash sale. I've developed a lovely business card cashback stash that I want to use to stay "4K CC complete". I don't want to give them my money when a disc isn't managed well. For Walkabout, I saw the film on DVD and really want it, yet never picked up the Blu-ray, so I'm hoping to get some positive feedback and add it to the list!

I'll have the same question for The Trial, though obviously, it hasn't had as much time in the market. I understand that it doesn't have HDR compared to the StudioCanal. I honestly find some HDRs to be far too bright, so I'm wondering if I'll actually prefer that. I've sampled Night of the Living Dead and felt it looked astonishing even without HDR. Comparing it to the Blu-ray it just seemed to have more dimension and depth, but perfectly balanced as far as peak brightness.

Thank you, to all of the contributors here! I love this thread.

Cheers!

[nicolas]

Is there any consensus on Walkabout? I'm prepping a hefty list of UHD titles I want to order IF and when CC does an October flash sale. I've developed a lovely business card cashback stash that I want to use to stay "4K CC complete". I don't want to give them my money when a disc isn't managed well. For Walkabout, I saw the film on DVD and really want it, yet never picked up the Blu-ray, so I'm hoping to get some positive feedback and add it to the list!

I'll have the same question for The Trial, though obviously, it hasn't had as much time in the market. I understand that it doesn't have HDR compared to the StudioCanal. I honestly find some HDRs to be far too bright, so I'm wondering if I'll actually prefer that. I've sampled Night of the Living Dead and felt it looked astonishing even without HDR. Comparing it to the Blu-ray it just seemed to have more dimension and depth, but perfectly balanced as far as peak brightness.

Thank you, to all of the contributors here! I love this thread.

Cheers!

I don’t have any of the two releases but the consensus on Walkabout seems pretty great. I’m not 100% sure but assume that it’s the same excellent 4K restoration of the film which Second Sight used for their UK BD. Encoding is likely the usual Criterion thing in regards to the low-pass filter but at the moment it should be the best presentation. I’m holding out for an eventual UK pendant by Second Sight as that edition would very likely top the Criterion. Same with Mean Streets.

The Trial is an odd case of Criterion leaving out Studiocanal’s HDR10 and Dolby Vision grades. Svet of Blu-ray.com noticed macroblocking and less than ideal shadow definition on the CC, which could have obviously been avoided if they’d put more love and care into encodes. The extras sound excellent though with the Joseph McBride commentary. I have the UK SC and am, despite minor issues, pleased with it and plan to pick up the Criterion BD solely for the extras.

[nicolas]

I‘ve taken a look at the new UHD of The Pianist and detailed my first impressions on the other forum: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=100

I was just going to link to that. Is the 4k bad enough to go into the "worse than the BD" tier?

I don’t have the original BD because it was considered bad but have seen a few glimpses of it in the new restoration feature on the UHD. It’s difficult and depends on the individual viewer as to how DNR-sensitive they are. I wouldn’t want to see that old master but the DNR is awful in any regard. Another problem is resolution consistency. The 4K mixes all sorts of resolutions whereas the BD is low-res all the way through.

Add to that the porting of an 5.1 track which is lacking in dynamics according to Pieter V and we’re pretty much disadvantaged at every corner. I think the new UHD is as bad for the potential of the format as the old BD was to the BD format, so neither better nor worse. It’s overall just massively disappointing that the DP almost single-handedly ruined an otherwise ambitious project.

[Finch]

The Trial and Walkabout (both CC) marked as Solid Upgrades (the latter if compared to Second Sight's recent BD)

[nicolas]

The Trial and Walkabout (both CC) marked as Solid Upgrades (the latter if compared to Second Sight's recent BD)

Finch, I noticed you categorized Picnic at Hanging Rock as a disappointing UHD. The Pianist then belongs in the same category.

[swo17]

The Trial

Is there any reason to favor either the Criterion or the SC over the other?

[nicolas]

The Trial

Is there any reason to favor either the Criterion or the SC over the other?

Depending on how big a deal HDR / Dolby Vision and a superior encode is for you. If you have a smaller screen and tend not to notice compression artifacts, you could do well with the Criterion and its exclusive audio commentary by Orson Welles expert Joseph McBride.

[5meohd]

Controversial then?

Should The Trial be in the category that says the StudioCanal > CC?

In this case I think its not as clear cut. Aren't CC arguing here that the HDR is revisionist? So even if it looks more "better", maybe it's not a truthful representation?

Ironic I know.

[mhofmann]

I don’t have any of the two releases but the consensus on Walkabout seems pretty great. I’m not 100% sure but assume that it’s the same excellent 4K restoration of the film which Second Sight used for their UK BD. Encoding is likely the usual Criterion thing in regards to the low-pass filter but at the moment it should be the best presentation. I’m holding out for an eventual UK pendant by Second Sight as that edition would very likely top the Criterion. Same with Mean Streets.

Yeah, encoding is of the usual Criterion/Pixelogic quality - meaning decidedly average. In some shots I could see the swirling blocks of older Criterion Blu-rays (think a few years back) with what looks like too aggressive luma quantization table parameters, or similar.

Still the best presentation as of now.

[hearthesilence]

FWIW, someone asked Ben Stoddart on the BFI's Facebook page a general question about HDR. Stoddart joked, "Finally….a question on here I can’t answer I’ll see if I can pass it onto someone who can," and Stoddart was able to forward this response:

HDR represents a dynamic range which is closer to that of 35mm negative (still superior to digital). The BFI has thus far only released titles on UHD that have been mastered using original negatives, to take advantage of that dynamic range as much as possible (the further you get away from the 35mm negative e.g. dupe negative or print, the less information can be gained). Using 4K DPX sequence as a basis (one DPX file for every frame, produced by scanning the film element on a high-end film scanner), HDR grading allows for more information to be drawn from the highlights and, at the other end, the shadows - then everything in between, which is measured in “nits”. SDR can usually display a range or around 100 to 300 nits and HDR can go up to about 10,000 nits (Dolby Vision). So this allows for a much larger and more accurate reproduction of colour, highlights and shadows and at the same time gaining as much information from an original 35mm negative as possible. There is argument that it shouldn’t be used on older film elements, as this could be considered revisionist (and it has been used this way…), but we see it as another very valuable tool in the box for remastering and restoration.