UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[M-A]

But how does the 2013 Paramount blu compare? That one is also in the correct 1.85:1

[nicolas]

But how does the 2013 Paramount blu compare? That one is also in the correct 1.85:1

Unfortunately I don’t have it. The CC was my first edition of the film.

[5meohd]

Well, today is the big CC sale day. I still don't feel like I have total confidence in my purchase.

Looking to buy:

Blow Out
After Hours
Dreams
Branded To Kill
Breathless should this also be in the Reference category? I notice some titles in the superior import category are duplicated where necessary, this isnt.
Don’t Look Now CC doesn't appear in the OP list at all, unless I'm mistaken.
The Fisher King
For All Mankind
Moonage Daydream appreciable, but isn't it considered as good as the source allows? Or is there speculation a future release could have HDR?
One False Move but I swear I've seen folks talking about actual momentary errors in the encode somewhere in one of the forums.
The Others CC doesn't appear in the OP list at all, unless I'm mistaken. I did see the note about lack of OG audio. Tough for me, as I value audio, but I also value films like this being in the CC brand (as a true fanboy). How much better would the FiM encode be? Is there a comparison somewhere?
The Princess Bride
The Red Shoes
The Rules of the Game
Thelma and Louise Revisionist color? Though, I doubt it would bother me. I may have seen this on TV once as a kid.
Triangle of Sadness
Mildred Pierce Interesting that this one is blue I think that helps me understand the perspective of the color category a little bit. From that review it seems to me to be a flawless release. For me would be red, but because the blu-ray itself was already so good, that means the "upgrade" isn't as substantial.

[nicolas]

Well, today is the big CC sale day. I still don't feel like I have total confidence in my purchase.

Looking to buy:

Blow Out
After Hours
Dreams
Branded To Kill
Breathless should this also be in the Reference category? I notice some titles in the superior import category are duplicated where necessary, this isnt.
Don’t Look Now CC doesn't appear in the OP list at all, unless I'm mistaken.
The Fisher King
For All Mankind
Moonage Daydream appreciable, but isn't it considered as good as the source allows? Or is there speculation a future release could have HDR?
One False Move but I swear I've seen folks talking about actual momentary errors in the encode somewhere in one of the forums.
The Others CC doesn't appear in the OP list at all, unless I'm mistaken. I did see the note about lack of OG audio. Tough for me, as I value audio, but I also value films like this being in the CC brand (as a true fanboy). How much better would the FiM encode be? Is there a comparison somewhere?
The Princess Bride
The Red Shoes
The Rules of the Game
Thelma and Louise Revisionist color? Though, I doubt it would bother me. I may have seen this on TV once as a kid.
Triangle of Sadness
Mildred Pierce Interesting that this one is blue I think that helps me understand the perspective of the color category a little bit. From that review it seems to me to be a flawless release. For me would be red, but because the blu-ray itself was already so good, that means the "upgrade" isn't as substantial.

Blow Out until Branded to Kill are safe buys.
Breathless in my opinion disappointing due to Studiocanal‘s botched master but it depends on whether you see the issue. Many professional reviewers haven’t.
Don’t Look Now almost certainly is superior on the UK / EU SC due to the FiM encode
Fisher King until One False Move all safe buys
The Others likely okay. I have the UK which has the OG 5.1 track. I slightly prefer that track to the Atmos, although it isn’t bad by any means.
Princess Bride until Mildred safe buys (I don‘t have Triangle). Yes, Mildred is blue as the BD is already very good.

[5meohd]

Blow Out until Branded to Kill are safe buys.
Breathless in my opinion disappointing due to Studiocanal‘s botched master but it depends on whether you see the issue. Many professional reviewers haven’t.
Don’t Look Now almost certainly is superior on the UK / EU SC due to the FiM encode
Fisher King until One False Move all safe buys
The Others likely okay. I have the UK which has the OG 5.1 track. I slightly prefer that track to the Atmos, although it isn’t bad by any means.
Princess Bride until Mildred safe buys (I don‘t have Triangle). Yes, Mildred is blue as the BD is already very good.

Thank you so much! I appreciate it. I have an HMV coupon which should make The Others and Don't Look Now actually cheaper than the CC sale, so sans gorgeous CC packaging, it's a no brainer. Have been needing to order Mulholland Dr. and a bunch of Koreeda stuff through them as well. Will grab some other Arrow UK 4Ks as well. Assuming Videodrome is superior via Arrow too.

Derp. I guess HMV doesn't ship to the US? Or maybe due to certain items in my cart they can't.

Bummed. Had a killer HUGE order stacked up.

[therewillbeblus]

kmhoffman said on the other forum he spot-checked the UK Virgin Suicides 4k and felt it was better encoded than the Criterion but turns to mush when the end credits begin.

The Studiocanal looked better to my eyes when comparing a few sequences side-by-side.

Similar to what we see on the two The Piano or Mulholland Drive versions: Studiocanal has more finely resolved grain, while Criterion's grain rendering looks decidedly more chunky, to the point where it could even be a bit low-pass filtered (either on purpose or due to different encoder settings).

The end credits look certainly messed up on the Studiocanal release and are fine on the Criterion.

Did anyone else ever weigh in on which Virgin Suicides is superior? Are any options noticeably better than the already-wonderful looking Criterion blu-ray?

[nicolas]

kmhoffman said on the other forum he spot-checked the UK Virgin Suicides 4k and felt it was better encoded than the Criterion but turns to mush when the end credits begin.

The Studiocanal looked better to my eyes when comparing a few sequences side-by-side.

Similar to what we see on the two The Piano or Mulholland Drive versions: Studiocanal has more finely resolved grain, while Criterion's grain rendering looks decidedly more chunky, to the point where it could even be a bit low-pass filtered (either on purpose or due to different encoder settings).

The end credits look certainly messed up on the Studiocanal release and are fine on the Criterion.

Did anyone else ever weigh in on which Virgin Suicides is superior? Are any options noticeably better than the already-wonderful looking Criterion blu-ray?

Yes, absolutely. See here for one example: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=41 ... &i=11&go=1

I upgraded to the UHD almost immediately and love it. The SC version appears to be even better (no caps available) but when they announced it I already went for the CC.

Definitely a great upgrade! Hopefully Marie Antoinette won’t take much longer to finally release in any acceptable high-definition master.

[nicolas]

Received my copy of Breaking the Waves today.

As always, Curzon’s name on the otherwise nice packaging seems like they‘re biggest attraction of the release. For those who care, it’s a 2-Disc Scanavo case with a slip cover. Disc is a BD-100 in SDR, 5.1 and 2.0 audio is included, as are English SDH subs.

Contrary to the previous report, I disagree about this UHD looking “perfect”. This is still a Curzon 4K disc as we know it from their earlier UHD efforts, which means it often looks very good, perfect even but with some issues here and there.

Issues are severely clipped highlights in all the usual areas - lamps, skies, sunlight etc. The grain around the affected image portion looks like it‘s been cut out.

The second issue could be due to a (probably) standard encode setting with an overall constant bitrate (the Wim Wenders BD set is plagued and ruined by this). That means, very grainy, Tungsten-stock OCN shots have an enormously high bitrate and look flat-out stunning like a DCP (highlights aside). Daylight-stock shots (such as exteriors, for which Robby Müller likely used the least grainy stock like A. Sekula on Tarantino‘s early films) have a Paramount-level low bitrate in the 20-30 Mbps range (due to the low grain I presume) with no spikes to something higher.

The good news though is that these sequences from what I saw look very good with no discernible macroblocking. The encode comes close but never really breaks apart. It‘s still organic in motion and when pausing, it looks solid. The bitrate graph will surely look wild once caps are up.

The digital chapter inserts have an even lower bitrate but look fine.

Normally, all this should suggest a much worse experience but it miraculously isn’t. The look of the film may factor into it as well.

Audio sounds fine from what I heard with the chapter songs having surprisingly great dynamic and even low-end frequencies.

All in all, a 90/100 release - reference to those who aren’t bothered by the clipped highlights - so almost perfect and definitely a serviceable presentation of the film and one I‘m looking forward to if I‘m in the mood for the film again (oh well).

[5meohd]

Received my copy today.

As always, Curzon’s name on the otherwise nice packaging seems like they‘re biggest attraction of the release. For those who care, it’s a 2-Disc Scanavo case with a slip cover. Disc is a BD-100 in SDR, 5.1 and 2.0 audio is included, as are English SDH subs.

Contrary to the previous report, I disagree about this UHD looking “perfect”. This is still a Curzon 4K disc as we know it from their earlier UHD efforts, which means it often looks very good, perfect even but with some issues here and there.

Issues are severely clipped highlights in all the usual areas - lamps, skies, sunlight etc. The grain around the affected image portion looks like it‘s been cut out.

The second issue could be due to a (probably) standard encode setting with an overall constant bitrate (the Wim Wenders BD set is plagued and ruined by this). That means, very grainy, Tungsten-stock OCN shots have an enormously high bitrate and look flat-out stunning like a DCP (highlights aside). Daylight-stock shots (such as exteriors, for which Robby Müller likely used the least grainy stock like A. Sekula on Tarantino‘s early films) have a Paramount-level low bitrate in the 20-30 Mbps range (due to the low grain I presume) with no spikes to something higher.

The good news though is that these sequences from what I saw look very good with no discernible macroblocking. The encode comes close but never really breaks apart. It‘s still organic in motion and when pausing, it looks solid. The bitrate graph will surely look wild once caps are up.

The digital chapter inserts have an even lower bitrate but look fine.

Normally, all this should suggest a much worse experience but it miraculously isn’t. The look of the film may factor into it as well.

Audio sounds fine from what I heard with the chapter songs having surprisingly great dynamic and even low-end frequencies.

All in all, a 90/100 release - reference to those who aren’t bothered by the clipped highlights - so almost perfect and definitely a serviceable presentation of the film and one I‘m looking forward to if I‘m in the mood for the film again (oh well).

Breaking the Waves then? Thanks for the write up, if so.

[nicolas]

Received my copy today.

As always, Curzon’s name on the otherwise nice packaging seems like they‘re biggest attraction of the release. For those who care, it’s a 2-Disc Scanavo case with a slip cover. Disc is a BD-100 in SDR, 5.1 and 2.0 audio is included, as are English SDH subs.

Contrary to the previous report, I disagree about this UHD looking “perfect”. This is still a Curzon 4K disc as we know it from their earlier UHD efforts, which means it often looks very good, perfect even but with some issues here and there.

Issues are severely clipped highlights in all the usual areas - lamps, skies, sunlight etc. The grain around the affected image portion looks like it‘s been cut out.

The second issue could be due to a (probably) standard encode setting with an overall constant bitrate (the Wim Wenders BD set is plagued and ruined by this). That means, very grainy, Tungsten-stock OCN shots have an enormously high bitrate and look flat-out stunning like a DCP (highlights aside). Daylight-stock shots (such as exteriors, for which Robby Müller likely used the least grainy stock like A. Sekula on Tarantino‘s early films) have a Paramount-level low bitrate in the 20-30 Mbps range (due to the low grain I presume) with no spikes to something higher.

The good news though is that these sequences from what I saw look very good with no discernible macroblocking. The encode comes close but never really breaks apart. It‘s still organic in motion and when pausing, it looks solid. The bitrate graph will surely look wild once caps are up.

The digital chapter inserts have an even lower bitrate but look fine.

Normally, all this should suggest a much worse experience but it miraculously isn’t. The look of the film may factor into it as well.

Audio sounds fine from what I heard with the chapter songs having surprisingly great dynamic and even low-end frequencies.

All in all, a 90/100 release - reference to those who aren’t bothered by the clipped highlights - so almost perfect and definitely a serviceable presentation of the film and one I‘m looking forward to if I‘m in the mood for the film again (oh well).

Breaking the Waves then? Thanks for the write up, if so.

Whoops, thanks for pointing it out. Breaking the Waves it is. Just corrected.

[nicolas]

Got my Delicatessen UK UHD today. It’s a BD-66 with Dolby Vision.

Studiocanal restored it in 4K from the original negative and supervised by Jean-Pierre Jeunet. They took an IP (not mentioned whether made / approved by Darius Khondji) as a color reference.

The bad news: The master is grain-managed AND badly encoded. The grain management is different on a shot-by-shot basis (only checked it briefly) but generally not too excessive. The encode is problematic in how it renders the DNR-affected shots even worse due to low bitrates being used on moments without much “detail”. There, we’re in Paramount territory but don’t get me wrong, it’s no Planes, Trains and Automobiles. So, the more DNR, the lower the bitrate and amount of detail.
The Studiocanal logo has at least 2- or 3x the bitrate of an OCN-sourced shot of the film.
So, all in all, watchable and not the worst of all time but falling short of what definitive versions look like.

I can’t comment much on the color timing as I’ve never seen / owned the film before and am not familiar with Jeunet apart from Amelie. It’s a Ritrovata restoration but when combined with the stylized look, it’s likely no big problem.

[tenia]

Your DNR/encode combination feedback reminds me of Basic Instinct, where you can spot through the bitrate graph the timecodes to the DNR section, because the encode's setup made it follow the high frequencies to encode, so when there's less, the bitrate drops down.

[Finch]

can anyone with prior knowledge of the old BD and in possession of the new dual format release comment, on how the enclosed Blu-Ray is in comparison to the previous Studio Canal release which is, like what, 10 years ago, now? Is it a new one? If it is, and Studio Canal encoded it well, I'll still get the dual format release (since I don't think the BD is sold separately).

[nicolas]

can anyone with prior knowledge of the old BD and in possession of the new dual format release comment, on how the enclosed Blu-Ray is in comparison to the previous Studio Canal release which is, like what, 10 years ago, now? Is it a new one? If it is, and Studio Canal encoded it well, I'll still get the dual format release (since I don't think the BD is sold separately).

I’ve given the BD a spin and it’s a new one. Grain management is intact but the encode is adequate for a BD. Bitrates are at normal Blu-ray levels. I’d say the amount of resolution on the BD is about equal to the 4K during the more heavily DNR’d shots. The lesser affected ones look better on the 4K with more detail. I’d choose the UHD over the BD when watching the film. Although somewhat depending on when the old master was made, you can classify it a solid upgrade despite the issues.

On another note, I got my hands on Capelight’s When Harry Met Sally 4K Mediabook. This will go to a family member but I’ve been able to check the disc. It’s a BD-100 with Dolby Vision. Caveat: English audio is only 5.1 with 2.0 reserved for German. English subs (regular) are available.

As with other films (The Misfits, Bloodsport), Capelight has problems properly encoding the highlights and I have a feeling they (again) used a light low-pass filter to ease the encoding. I’m no authority on the film (only know it from the very old BD) but I’m sure the grain structure on the master is a little more “dense” than on this UHD. Others may describe the look of the film as “soft” and I agree, although in combination with the original cinematography it feels right.
I’ve watched Reiner’s The Princess Bride two weeks ago and it had a nice, solid amount of grain even on the likely filtered Criterion UHD.
This film had a different cinematographer (Barry Sonnenfeld) though.

All in all, it’s a good presentation and surely an improvement on earlier 4K-mastered BDs (I don’t have any) but I have a feeling that once Shout release theirs, we’ll get something better. In case of Sonnenfeld approving or supervising the transfer, it may take a while but the end result could be phenomenal as with Men in Black (DV) or The Addams Family. Fingers crossed we won’t have to wait much longer.

[5meohd]

Thank you for the feedback on Delicatessen. I've been waiting for a decent copy of that since DVD. I wonder if someone in the US would consider putting that out?

On a separate note, did Snow White get discussed here? There seems to be a healthy, but lengthy thread at the other forum, but im curious what some of you think. I watched exactly 30 minutes of it last night and I found it to be truly magical. I'm 36 so I grew up with these on VHS. I felt the blurays were so wonderful having mostly skipped any Disney DVDs the resolution and color and stability was just awesome. Then I've learned over the years about what was really going on there. I've had the Cinderella UHD on the shelf, but didn't crack it yet. Just got Snow White and it really feels like some milestone of experiencing an "as good as it gets" home video release.

But, I'm not expert! Do you think they still mucked it up? They definitely failed on not including original mono audio and by stacking the UHD on top of a DVD in the DMC exclusive. Otherwise even the slipcover and art design are stunning!!

[nicolas]

Thank you for the feedback on Delicatessen. I've been waiting for a decent copy of that since DVD. I wonder if someone in the US would consider putting that out?

On a separate note, did Snow White get discussed here? There seems to be a healthy, but lengthy thread at the other forum, but im curious what some of you think. I watched exactly 30 minutes of it last night and I found it to be truly magical. I'm 36 so I grew up with these on VHS. I felt the blurays were so wonderful having mostly skipped any Disney DVDs the resolution and color and stability was just awesome. Then I've learned over the years about what was really going on there. I've had the Cinderella UHD on the shelf, but didn't crack it yet. Just got Snow White and it really feels like some milestone of experiencing an "as good as it gets" home video release.

But, I'm not expert! Do you think they still mucked it up? They definitely failed on not including original mono audio and by stacking the UHD on top of a DVD in the DMC exclusive. Otherwise even the slipcover and art design are stunning!!

Apart from the missing OG tracks, both are masterpiece releases and easily the best Disney physical media products in ages, certainly at the top of their 4K output. I’ve watched Cinderella and it’s unbelievably beautiful.

[dwk]

Thank you for the feedback on Delicatessen. I've been waiting for a decent copy of that since DVD. I wonder if someone in the US would consider putting that out?

I would have assumed that Lionsgate would be putting it out as a Best Buy exclusive steelbook (since that is how they have released the majority of their StudioCanal titles), but with Beat Buy getting out of the physical media business, who knows.

[Finch]

Really appreciate the quick reply re the enclosed BD for Delicatessen, nicholas. Makes me less conflicted about getting the 4k when rarewaves do their half-yearly Studio Canal sale.

[nicolas]

Really appreciate the quick reply re the enclosed BD for Delicatessen, nicholas. Makes me less conflicted about getting the 4k when rarewaves do their half-yearly Studio Canal sale.

Do you know if the sale happens roughly at the same time every year? I’d be interested in participating as there are a few of their remastered BD’s I held off on.

[Finch]

I don't remember off-hand unfortunately if it was always the same time each year but they do seem to have them annually. Same with BFI titles.

[therewillbeblus]

*If* it's annually it'll be around early-mid April, since that's when I placed my order this year - so maybe wait til then and see? If it's actually bi-annual like Finch says, then I suspect it'll happen again like now

[nicolas]

*If* it's annually it'll be around early-mid April, since that's when I placed my order this year - so maybe wait til then and see? If it's actually bi-annual like Finch says, then I suspect it'll happen again like now

Thanks so much for the info! I‘ve signed up for their newsletter and will keep an eye on their deals. Rarewaves had some amazing prices over the last few years, I remember getting Benedetta in 4K for roughly 10 Euros before they corrected their mistake.

[nicolas]

Wicked Vision‘s (Germany) In the Heat of the Night UHD is a superior import and improves upon an excellent Kino UHD by adding HDR / Dolby Vision compared to the former‘s SDR according to a post on the other forum.
WV performed a grade directly from the master files, so no fake HDR which Turbine and Capelight frequently perform.
The new grade is more colorful, not in an exaggerated manner but tastefully improving on the Kino in terms of saturation and nuances.
I‘m very happy with my Kino disc that includes the sequels but the WV edition is tempting.
Hopefully this small label sells lots of copies!

[therewillbeblus]

Criterion's Princess Bride 4k and Disney's Nightmare Before Christmas 4k both have playback issues, so you might want to hold off with purchasing until further comment from CC and Disney.

I checked my Princess Bride on my Panasonic and Sony players, and it played back fine during the scene that I've seen mentioned online (the fire swamp). I've also seen complaints that the glue holding the slip on the back pulls the ink off, but mine wasn't glued at all, so clearly it's all a crapshoot.

Well, I spoke too soon: finally sat to watch it and mine starts glitching after they kidnap Buttercup and it Freaks out up until the eels show up.

I rejoiced when a thorough check playing after chapter stops (including the fire swamp) revealed no issues and then I made it past the part that glitched for you - but once they started dueling it was game over. The weird part is that this doesn’t seem to be occurring at a consistent point, but rather an issue with playback in general or something. I was able to go back to certain scenes that were rough glitches and they sometimes played better when I refreshed the film from a chapter stop, but ultimately it just wasn’t worth continuing by the battle of wits. And most chapter stops revealed problems later on, even after ejecting, resuming, cleaning the disc, not resuming from the place left off at, etc.

I really hope they issue replacements, though I’m wary about a “playtested” copy for them working for the consumer if it’s a disc issue that requires some time playing to appear, and seems to be emanating differently depending on the play

[Finch]

Scream Factory's The Blob seems to be a Sony in-house encode. Fidelity in Motion have been confirmed as the authoring house behind Arrow's Hellraiser 4k set, and the framing issues on Hellraiser III have been fixed. A few BR users got their Criterion copy of The Others and the booklet says it's a NewSpec encode. No one has viewed the film yet and/or compared to the Studio Canal.