UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

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M-A
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:34 pm

Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1901 Post by M-A » Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:30 pm

I've heard that Criterion's Mean Streets 4K has significantly worse audio than the Warner blu. I wonder what Second Sight's will sound like.

nicolas
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:34 am

UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1902 Post by nicolas » Tue Nov 21, 2023 6:32 pm

Just a quick addition to the statement on the other forum. I already prepared a text about the new UHD and only read the comparison afterwards but this is now obsolete as I’m in full agreement here. It should be emphasized that the grain management is not throughout the entire film and on first glance only affecting bright and rather static shots. I suppose Andrew Davis didn’t want the grain to distract from the action, otherwise I can’t find an explanation. No encode issues during these scenes either apart from a modest bitrate drop, which is understandable.
Colors etc. are superb and obviously by far the best the film has ever looked. An easy upgrade!

I’d also heartily recommend the new Atmos mix over the 5.1. The 5.1 doesn’t sound too good to my ears during the more action-heavy moments - it feels quite crammed and awfully noisy instead of carefully calibrated. The Atmos mix fixes that (I remember reading that the original re-recording mixer worked on the new mix), separating the sounds a lot better while still keeping the volume and dynamic of the 5.1. I think this ranks among the better catalogue remixes but more knowledgeable audio people can obviously judge better.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1903 Post by therewillbeblus » Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:51 pm

So is StudioCanal's 4K of The Others significantly better encoded than Criterion's, or does it just get the edge with the 5.1 track? I'd like to go with the Criterion for the commentary if it's visually close (I'm struggling to find if this was addressed in a cursory search, so apologies if it's been answered already)

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Finch
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1904 Post by Finch » Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:19 pm

I still haven't seen anyone compare the two.

nicolas
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UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1905 Post by nicolas » Wed Nov 22, 2023 7:00 am

therewillbeblus wrote:So is StudioCanal's 4K of The Others significantly better encoded than Criterion's, or does it just get the edge with the 5.1 track? I'd like to go with the Criterion for the commentary if it's visually close (I'm struggling to find if this was addressed in a cursory search, so apologies if it's been answered already)
I haven’t seen a comparison either but assume they’re quite similar in terms of encoding with a subtle improvement on the SC. I’m saying this as Pixelogic/ Next Spec’s recent SDR encodes (Moonage Daydream in particular) have turned out well and Chris didn’t mention any anomalies in his review. If you’re interested in the bonus features, the CC definitely seems the way to go despite the missing 5.1.

nicolas
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UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1906 Post by nicolas » Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:00 pm

Steven Spielberg’s Duel looks phenomenal in 4K DV with no apparent issues. The only caveat is the lack of the OG mono track - audio is Atmos only. The AI-upscaled TV version is a bonus, so I guess it doesn’t factor into the OP rating. EDIT: Severe DNR after roughly 20 minutes. I did not see this after only checking the first ten minutes initially.

Paramount’s Terms of Endearment was thankfully handled by their B-team, which is great news. Apart from the obviously DNR’d and badly encoded opticals, the OCN shots look very good with mostly organic grain and good encoding in DV. It’s nothing special at any rate but for Paramount standards, it’s remarkable. Colors are surprisingly organic as well. In short, they tinkered with this one much less. I really like the film and am happy with the upgrade. Solid release. (Movies Unlimited gave me both at good pre-order prices with their 25% off discount MU23NOV in case anyone wants to use it before it expires).
Last edited by nicolas on Thu Nov 23, 2023 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Finch
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1907 Post by Finch » Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:10 am

jegharfangetmigenmyg wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:33 am
Any word on whether the new DV version of Animal House is worth the upgrade? I guess that it probably is, but the HDR version was already one of my favourite UHD's.
Geoff had very nice things to say about the German release from Plaion of Animal House which comes with the original audio and Dolby Vision. The new disc from Universal is the old 2021 disc with tat added. Funny thing is the Plaion achieves all of this on a BD-66 compared to Universal's BD-100. Amending the OP and adding the Plaion to the superior import section.

nicolas
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1908 Post by nicolas » Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:20 pm

This is about the new 4K-restored Pathé BD of Melville’s Le Samouraï. English subtitles are available. I’ve decided to post this now as the upcoming UHD set is limited and a few copies are still available before it sells out. Maybe a few of the readers here decide to buy a copy as I’ve got some great news:

Thanks to M A’s recommendation, I bought a Black Friday-discounted copy of the 14-film Alain Delon set Pathé released this year. I had no idea the BD of Le Samouraï is already from the new 4K restoration. Normally studios use these sets to get rid of old discs, so this is a great surprise.

Of course I took a look straight away. The restoration looks exceptional. Absolutely no yellow tint despite Ritrovata’s involvement in the scanning. I’m sure the lack of their tint was due to the restoration and color grading occurring in France. Detail in the master is clearly improved compared to the previous Criterion master (which I don’t like for how anemic it looks) but it’s not a revolutionary difference. I’m sure the film never was the most detailed one to begin with. BD encoding is good with clipped highlights. I’m expecting the UHD to follow suit.

The BD has a bonus feature about the restoration - in French only. I watched it and they’re clearly proud of their achievement. I hope I understood correctly that the project took a total of ten months with three months for the restoration itself. Scanning alone by Ritrovata took over a week and the color grade two to three weeks. The negative had a number of shots replaced by an internegative, also lots of perforations and splices had to be repaired. They showed a bit of how the negative looks like today - I honestly don’t think it was that bad but that was just a section of the opening credits.

The grade was performed to achieve Melville’s preferred "black and white in color" look. I’m not sure how accurate the blue look was but the new restoration took another path as the original Pathé BD infamously had that blue look. (FWIW, a BR.com user recently saw a 35mm print of the film at the Academy Museum and it was very blue). The colorist looked at original prints and different sources and came to the conclusion that the “neutral” look we have now is the most accurate. Director and DoP Bruno Nuytten supervised the grade. Nuytten apparently had good memories of how the film looked when he saw it in theaters upon release and offered guidance accordingly. No info about the audio.

Pathé explicitly mentioned that they partnered with Criterion on this but it doesn’t seem that Lee Kline or anyone at Criterion performed any service. Maybe they’ll do their infamous "additional (audio) restoration" for their release.

Can’t wait for the UHD and will update when I get it.

nicolas
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1909 Post by nicolas » Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:06 pm

One more post regarding Duel. I’m sorry about my post from yesterday when I mentioned that it looks phenomenal. Unfortunately I have to report it doesn’t. After roughly twenty minutes or so, severe grain management is evident in most shots. When I initially reported about the transfer, I based that on the first ten minutes. These look great indeed.

I have no idea what went wrong here and who requested the DNR. This is a disappointing UHD. It’s not quite as bad as American Graffiti (which I consider even worse than what Paramount usually does) but sometimes not far away. Again, sorry about the confusion. This is not what I expected and definitely a very strange case.

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tenia
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1910 Post by tenia » Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:27 pm

I don't think the Samourai's non-Ritrovata'd grading is because it's been done in France, especially as it's very likely several Ritrovata'd gradings were actually L'image retrouvée'd, but more probably because they kept extremely close to the previous grading, which was supervised by Pierre Lhomme.
Which I've been told was a complicated case (he requested heavy changes after a 1st pass from the lab, some feeling extremely wrong to the lab and ending up discreetly not being implemented), but still, it makes me wonder what Nuytten's input was considering how close the 2 gradings are (basically, the new grading only removes a blue push that always felt wqy too heavy and digital to me).

nicolas
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1911 Post by nicolas » Fri Nov 24, 2023 7:00 pm

tenia wrote:I don't think the Samourai's non-Ritrovata'd grading is because it's been done in France, especially as it's very likely several Ritrovata'd gradings were actually L'image retrouvée'd, but more probably because they kept extremely close to the previous grading, which was supervised by Pierre Lhomme.
Which I've been told was a complicated case (he requested heavy changes after a 1st pass from the lab, some feeling extremely wrong to the lab and ending up discreetly not being implemented), but still, it makes me wonder what Nuytten's input was considering how close the 2 gradings are (basically, the new grading only removes a blue push that always felt wqy too heavy and digital to me).
Good to know, thanks! I’m not sure whether I forgot already but I don’t think the colorist mentioned Lhomme and his grading. I interpreted it that he made many choices according to old reference material and personal ones according to how he thinks the light is supposed to be in the scenes. He then altered specific image portions accordingly. I’m not sure whether that’s him just showing off a little - he’d have to sit at this for more than three weeks if he worked that way all the time. Brief comments by Nuytten would have been appreciated (like with Pawel Edelman and The Pianist) but at this point I think they’re mainly taking a well-known DP in order to be able to write down a “approved by…” seal on their restoration info card as a mean of telling the audience “we did right” when a pro like Nuytten validated the grading.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1912 Post by tenia » Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:14 am

I genuinely think those input are indeed most often so external to the actual team who worked on those movies that they're purely PR stuff and make little technical sense since any other DP could fit.

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jegharfangetmigenmyg
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1913 Post by jegharfangetmigenmyg » Sun Nov 26, 2023 2:37 am

Finch wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:10 am
jegharfangetmigenmyg wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2023 2:33 am
Any word on whether the new DV version of Animal House is worth the upgrade? I guess that it probably is, but the HDR version was already one of my favourite UHD's.
Geoff had very nice things to say about the German release from Plaion of Animal House which comes with the original audio and Dolby Vision. The new disc from Universal is the old 2021 disc with tat added. Funny thing is the Plaion achieves all of this on a BD-66 compared to Universal's BD-100. Amending the OP and adding the Plaion to the superior import section.
Thanks, Finch! I'll opt for the Plaion as an upgrade.

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Finch
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1914 Post by Finch » Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:43 pm

The German 4k of Pearl from Turbine appears to be good. andreas969's feedback is here.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1915 Post by Finch » Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:19 pm

nic posted on BR.com that Capelight's German 4k of the Kaufman Body Snatchers is excellent, so it seems all other major markets are getting a superior release to what the best label in the world put out. Of course Tarzi and co could just try being the best instead of merely being first.
They changed authoring houses to a vastly superior one (LSP Medien - they also do excellent restorations) and thus achieved the currently best version - at least until the Arrow one releases. I don’t even see Arrow gaining anything that isn’t on the LSP encode.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1916 Post by Finch » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:03 am


nicolas
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UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1917 Post by nicolas » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:27 am

Finch wrote:nic posted on BR.com that Capelight's German 4k of the Kaufman Body Snatchers is excellent, so it seems all other major markets are getting a superior release to what the best label in the world put out. Of course Tarzi and co could just try being the best instead of merely being first.
They changed authoring houses to a vastly superior one (LSP Medien - they also do excellent restorations) and thus achieved the currently best version - at least until the Arrow one releases. I don’t even see Arrow gaining anything that isn’t on the LSP encode.
Exactly this. And it’s even confirmed by Tarzi himself that they changed authoring houses to a new and cheaper one in order to increase the frequency of their UHDs due to the lower cost per title. The news about MGM finally licensing to non-US labels is so good precisely because of that. I also sincerely hope that the EU labels do something about the botched and filtered audio mixes Kino used.

By the way, Capelight have also announced Dressed to Kill, The Night of the Hunter, Red Dawn, Thelma & Louise and 12 Angry Men for 2024. Hopefully these will all be LSP encodes - then we‘re in for a treat.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1918 Post by nicolas » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:41 am

James Luckard on the other forum noticed major compression issues of Love Actually’s new 4K master on the Universal UHD: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=233

Unbelievable how something like this passes "QC".

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Finch
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1919 Post by Finch » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:54 am

Worrying trend at Universal. I really hope they're sending Scream a good source for the new Darkman UHD. (edit: Looking at the Worse than the BD column, they actually have a handful of offenders in there!)

The Color Purple Randy Miller's review

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Finch
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1920 Post by Finch » Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:27 pm

review of Young Guns

The disc's producer confirmed in the YG thread on BR that the audio was culled from the movie's laserdisc.

TIVOLI
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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1921 Post by TIVOLI » Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:50 pm

Any opinions on the Italian 4K of The Conformist ?. Are there English subs and are they done well?

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UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1922 Post by MichaelB » Sat Dec 02, 2023 5:44 pm

Finch wrote:I don’t even see Arrow gaining anything that isn’t on the LSP encode.
Arrow’s version will definitely include the corrected audio in the taxi scene, as per their 2013 BD - I checked with them as soon as they announced it. I gather this isn’t true of the Kino Lorber version, but don’t know about others.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1923 Post by rrenault » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:52 am

nicolas wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:27 am
Finch wrote:nic posted on BR.com that Capelight's German 4k of the Kaufman Body Snatchers is excellent, so it seems all other major markets are getting a superior release to what the best label in the world put out. Of course Tarzi and co could just try being the best instead of merely being first.
They changed authoring houses to a vastly superior one (LSP Medien - they also do excellent restorations) and thus achieved the currently best version - at least until the Arrow one releases. I don’t even see Arrow gaining anything that isn’t on the LSP encode.
Exactly this. And it’s even confirmed by Tarzi himself that they changed authoring houses to a new and cheaper one in order to increase the frequency of their UHDs due to the lower cost per title. The news about MGM finally licensing to non-US labels is so good precisely because of that. I also sincerely hope that the EU labels do something about the botched and filtered audio mixes Kino used.

By the way, Capelight have also announced Dressed to Kill, The Night of the Hunter, Red Dawn, Thelma & Louise and 12 Angry Men for 2024. Hopefully these will all be LSP encodes - then we‘re in for a treat.
Thelma & Louise is also getting a UK Criterion 4K for what it’s worth, and that seems to be one of the Criterion’s better 4K encodes.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1924 Post by Finch » Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:17 am

tone-mapped shots of the CC BD and CC 4k of Days of Heaven

left and right arrows to toggle the comparisons, up and down for additional captures

Btw, fkid on BR.com said the HDR10 is great but the Dolby Vision was done with static global values for brightness.

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Re: UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading

#1925 Post by AxeYou » Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:14 pm

Finch wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:17 am
but the Dolby Vision was done with static global values for brightness.
Thankfully it doesn't matter much, because the actual per-shot peak brightness is always below 400 nits (found this elsewhere) after the ~2min mark, so any decent TV won't need tone mapping anyway.

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