2 Seven Samurai

[EddieLarkin]

I don't fully understand, but that's on me.

Looks like even though BFI's The Seventh Seal was in a DV container (as this ostensibly will be?) it's still tied (or non-preferred) to the Criterion's SDR transfer in our UHD thread. How does that happen, when it's not just in HDR but DV? Does it come down to the materials just not being up to snuff, and so comparably the PQ doesn't matter?

I'd like to jump on the BFI given the specs difference, but this is giving me pause

To try and clear up a few things:

In terms of how the resulting image looks on playback, there should be no difference between HDR10 and DV. They are simply both trying to replicate the HDR(PQ) grade. Despite a great many people thinking otherwise, DV is not a different "grading" system to HDR10, and offers no advantages in terms of what it can do in terms of the base "look" of the film. It simply offers greater flexibility to the television to reproduce the grade on playback. Meaning, whether a disc has DV or not means nothing as to how good the film looks at base, it's only relevant in terms of how easy a job the TV is going to have. A TV that struggles in HDR10 will benefit from the DV option on a disc moreso than a TV that handles HDR10 well.

Regarding SDR restorations on UHD, the most "purist" way to present them is as Criterion does, with HDR not being involved at all.

The BFI are taking a different approach, thankfully not to force the master into HDR (which can be disastrous, see Friday the 13th), but to gently regrade the SDR master in HDR. The main advantage seems to be to offer a greater contrast range, which is clear in the caps between the Criterion and BFI UHD.

If you like how The Seventh Seal looks there, I'm sure Seven Samurai will be similar. I assume the same man will be performing the regrade (David Mackenzie), and you can also see the benefits to grain reproduction/compression he's bringing to the BFI UHD over the Criterion. If you already have the Criterion Seven Samurai package, it seems like a complete no brainer to me which UHD to get.

[nicolas]

I'm not sure how much, if any, noticable difference there is between presenting SDR material in SDR vs. a presenting SDR material with a restrained HDR (I'm certain that BFI isn't going to do something offensive with the HDR grade.)
Someone here with a better grasp on the technology will probably chime in.

I just think Criterion's philosophy is clear at this point, they will present HDR except if the filmmaker's request no HDR or when the restoration was in SDR.

As for why ths was done in SDR, I think it comes down to less about the materials, although that may play a part, and more to do with Toho's belief that they shouldn't use HDR on older films.

Here’s what Geoff D wrote about the Seventh Seal UHD on the other forum and particularly the HDR topic:

“HDR treatment is majestic, NOT in a roasting-eyeballs kinda way but as a pitch-perfect balance of light and dark. HDR highlights are more controlled than the SDR version, I don't mean that there's now scads and scads of extra highlight detail because there isn't, but what's there is given greater texture, shaping and depth by the HDR. You get more luminance in the smaller speculars that glint from hair and skin, in the fire as the 'witch' is about to be torched, but if anything it's the SDR that feels like the 'brighter' version because of how the average brightness seems higher acros the frame and that the highlights feel broader, flatter, more directly lit. Again, it's ironic that people got/get into a state of panic about how HDR would wreck older movies and yeah, if everything was given a Light Cannon™ treatment then I'd agree, but subtler grades like that given to Seventh Seal and Frankenstein are of genuine benefit to the imagery.

The treatment of the black levels between the two versions of Seventh Seal are eerily similar to that of Frankenstein https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...8#post19457358 as the SDR presentation crushes down a significant amount of shadow detail that's now visible in the HDR. In the SDR blacks are extremely dense, making darker exteriors/interiors and the shadowy sides of people's heads look like a formless black mass a.k.a. The Arnie Effect. It's fine for what it is, but the way that the HDR raises the blacks yet is still capable of maintaining a greater level of perceptual contrast is just remarkable, you never get the feeling that the blacks are being compromised in the HDR because of how the highlights are more concentrated. The HDR grade doesn't open up the shadows all the way mind you, there's still a point where black falls off into black and may appear to be a little clipped itself (some of those fades look a little odd). But the overall impression is of an image with more texture and nuance at both ends of the visual scale, and it's marvellous.”

[tenia]

To adds on what Eddie wrote about HDR and DV : DV is a refined HDR option. When I write Refined, I really mean it : it's an option providing more granularity about the HDR grading values, so that it should be more refinely reproduced by the TV. But it's still the same base grade, there is no "better colours" or deeper colours or contrast or anything like this. It's like a more advanced encode of the same source.

[therewillbeblus]

Got it, thanks guys