UHD Encodes and Technical Discussion

[Yakushima]

nicolas, have you compared the Eagle UHD to the Paramount UHD, and if so : does the difference in encode really alleviate the textural issues of the Paramount UHD, or was it always really a baked-in issue of grain management in the restoration (which is my POV) ?

Caps-a-holic just posted a comparison between Italian (Eagle) and UK 4K UHD versions of Once Upon a Time in the West, and Eagle clearly shows more texture.

But it still looks scrubbed compared to the old US BD

I received the Eagle edition today and previewed it. The restoration looks and sounds absolutely gorgeous. It is clearly DNRed, but still watchable. Some sections preserve a near-filmic look with a hint of grain. Other sections look a bit waxy, but not overwhelmingly so.

It is a crying shame that Paramount did such a hack job of noise reduction on this beautiful restoration. It could have been an absolutely stellar reference version for years to come.

As it is, it looks like Eagle people did their best to recover the film texture to the degree it was possible, and this disc is still a solid upgrade over the US Blu-ray and is recommended to all but the most DNR-averse.

[tenia]

I think we can all agree it's the best (as to date) presentation of a non-optimal restoration, but whose alternative is an arguably even more non-optimal BD.

[Maladroit Aggregator]

So those caps aren't representative of what it looks like in motion?

Lack of grain bothers me much more than wrong color, and while I'd hardly call what the old BD has "grain" (more like digital noise) at least it's a texture - again, at least in the stills.

I'll likely pick up the Italian disc anyway, but I don't see what everyone is so enthusiastic about, here or at the other forums.

[tenia]

Maybe I poorly expressed myself.
What I meant is that while the restoration in itself does provide an upgrade over the BD, it remains a flawed restoration due to the artificial filtering baked into it. At least, the Eagle UHD doesn't add compression issues on top of that, but no encode, no matter how good it is, will ever bring back what has been filtered out.
The caps do look representative to me, I just think the DNR is more visible that what you found of it.

[Stefan Andersson]

Charlotte Barker comments on To Catch a Thief restoration - see Oct. 31 post:
https://www.hometheaterforum.com/commun ... 325/page-8

[tenia]

I'd love to be able to see this restoration one day.

[nicolas]

A great new interview with David Mackenzie / Fidelity in Motion, conducted by Limelight and published here.

This except is particularly interesting:

As for the future of physical media, I imagine it'll look fairly close to how it does now. In terms of market trends, people forget that DVD, which pleased movie lovers and casual viewers alike, was a one-off. We're back to a more typical market now, where there's a mass-market product (which used to be renting a VHS from Blockbuster, and is now renting from a streaming service), and an enthusiast product (which used to be LaserDisc and is now BD/UHD BD). And just as in the LD days, we're seeing studios license their product out to dedicated physical media labels, while they concentrate on the mass market.

[mfunk9786]

Can anyone explain to me why there is no HDR at all on the Hell's Angels 4K release? I'm rather surprised considering the look/colorization of the film.

[nicolas]

Can anyone explain to me why there is no HDR at all on the Hell's Angels 4K release? I'm rather surprised considering the look/colorization of the film.

I haven’t seen the transfer notes yet but the back cover already gives away that UCLA was involved in the restoration, so Criterion probably licensed it. They likely came to the conclusion that the surviving film elements of such an “old” movie don’t have noteworthy dynamic range for contrast that exceeds the SDR range and/or brightness levels above 100 nits wouldn’t be faithful to the source any more.

[mfunk9786]

Do you concur with that line of thinking?

[nicolas]

Do you concur with that line of thinking?

I have now received the 4K and agree with their approach. I just went through the film at roughly 1.5x speed to check for blown-out highlights or crushed shadows that’d reveal the limitations of the SDR space. Fortunately, that isn’t the case. The color footage, particularly the ballroom sequence, is so gently colored that there genuinely isn’t much range a grade can expose without exaggerating anything. The blue-tinted scenes have stronger colors, particularly when explosions happen in these segments but as there’s not that much depth and brightness to the flames themselves, I again thought there wasn’t anything the colorist left on the table in the SDR grade. Later on in the film, particularly during the final battle, the grayscale is beautifully rendered. While skies are bright, grain remains fine without clipping in the clouds. From my cursory glance at the film, the showdown is the only segment where I’d say HDR might have made a small difference in a number of shots but honestly, the gain would still likely be minimal due to the nature of the elements. I think having a consistently “conservative” SDR grade does the film better justice than taking liberties á la Sony or VS.

The transfer was made by Universal from a 35mm duplicate negative. I like everything about it except for subtle traces of grain management here and there where they tried to keep the visuals relatively stable across scenes where different sources had to be used. Grain is slightly magnetic and “bends” with the characters but it’s not a big deal as they left the finer-grained material, which is surprisingly much of the film, and the opticals alone. Damage clean-up was thorough. I don’t think I’ve seen such a pristine-looking silent film before. Criterion’s encode is remarkable. It’s truly like viewing a print at home and can heartily recommend the 4K.