Vinegar Syndrome and Their Partner Labels

[luxta]

From Blu forum:

If a director doesn't want to approve a new master then it can still be done without their input. DGA rules allow directors to have input on home video releases and the transfer itself but it doesn't give them the power to prevent studios from remastering and releasing their own films.

[tenia]

Interesting. I always thought it was kinda mandatory (except, of course, if the director explicitely states people can go ahead without its input).

[MichaelB]

France is a lot tougher when it comes to the author's moral rights, so it might have been more of a challenge doing it there (assuming Mann didn't give permission).

[jazzo]

For those who have never seen The Keep, I recommend checking it out before blind-buying the release. As young tweens when this was first released, I and my horror/fantasy-loving friends (who had even read and enjoyed the F. Paul Wilson source novel) were hoping this was going to be a revelation when we were finally able to get the VHS for a movie night, and we were left absolutely befuddled at the complete and utter mess the film seemed to be.

I revisited it as an adult a few years ago, hoping that I simply wasn't old enough to appreciate it charms, but I thought it was absolutely fucking terrible (and not, I might add, in the wonderful almost outsider artist way that many of those 80s genre films are). It doesn't surprise me that Mann wants to disown the picture. That being said, I know it has its fans and I'm happy a nice edition finally exists for them. But for anyone without a nostalgic glow for the film, approach with caution and check those expectations. Great Tangerine Dream score, though.

And I suppose I have to ask, are the genre nerds now so desperate that they're reclaiming Sliver, for fuck's sake?

[domino harvey]

And I suppose I have to ask, are the genre nerds now so desperate that they're reclaiming Sliver, for fuck's sake?

There is an enormous portion of physical media buyers who will simply buy anything they ever remember appearing on cable in the 80s or 90s. Literally anything. Once you realize this, a lot of these releases start making (financial) sense

[senseabove]

The big news here, honestly, is the never-before-released uncensored Who Killed Teddy Bear?

[jazzo]

And I suppose I have to ask, are the genre nerds now so desperate that they're reclaiming Sliver, for fuck's sake?

There is an enormous portion of physical media buyers who will simply buy anything they ever remember appearing on cable in the 80s or 90s. Literally anything. Once you realize this, a lot of these releases start making (financial) sense

Wasn't it Karl Lagerfeld who once said, "Cable films from the 80s and 90s are a sign of defeat. You lost control of your life so you bought high end physical media releases of those cable films"?

Or maybe that was sweatpants (he wrote, himself, owning plenty of high end releases of shitty films on physical media, and a pair of sweatpants [for sleeping]).

[tenia]

France is a lot tougher when it comes to the author's moral rights, so it might have been more of a challenge doing it there (assuming Mann didn't give permission).

I meant : I thought the DGA rules in the US was making that mandatory.
Here, I think that there are also right issues in general on the movie anyway.

[Calvin]

I've round Kino's post on the matter circa May 22.

Nothing strange about it, due to DGA (Director's Guild of America) rules, no new HD/2K/4K master can be created without the consent of the director.

Any US label could've released the old SD master on DVD, but neither KL or the label who acquired it after us were interested in a DVD ONLY release.

It seems strange that they would have been so misinformed if that's not the case

[ryannichols7]

From Blu forum:

If a director doesn't want to approve a new master then it can still be done without their input. DGA rules allow directors to have input on home video releases and the transfer itself but it doesn't give them the power to prevent studios from remastering and releasing their own films.

I was gonna ask if this was the case, how did Kino releasing Lost Highway not gain more traction, but I'm guessing that's different since Kino was sublicensing it from Universal, whereas Criterion licensed it directly from MK2. but also begs the question about Arrow releasing Dune seemingly without any director involvement at all. hm

And I suppose I have to ask, are the genre nerds now so desperate that they're reclaiming Sliver, for fuck's sake?

There is an enormous portion of physical media buyers who will simply buy anything they ever remember appearing on cable in the 80s or 90s. Literally anything. Once you realize this, a lot of these releases start making (financial) sense

and what's worse is that they're willing to pay top dollar for the slop too. I can't help but notice once again that this label is being scalper friendly with the "limit two per customer" - one to watch, one to sit in the plastic wrap and eventually sell on eBay fo $$$ I'm sure. I'm sure the argument is "we're letting them buy gifts" but...I don't see any of these movies being gifts

[luxta]

The Keep: "inventory_quantity": 3769. And continues...

[luxta]

and what's worse is that they're willing to pay top dollar for the slop too.

Do you consider yourself elite?

Personally, I am omnivorous because I love different types of cinema and I know how to separate the wheat from the chaff. Today I can watch the slasher Doom Asylum, and tomorrow Bergman's Persona.

[ryannichols7]

and what's worse is that they're willing to pay top dollar for the slop too.

Do you consider yourself elite?

Personally, I am omnivorous because I love different types of cinema and I know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I'm not saying I'm elite (I have paid for a few of those Warner tat editions from the UK of Singin' in the Rain and Casablanca) but I do think there's a clear quality separation sometimes. I respect that this cinema has a place for a lot of people (as I've said elsewhere in this thread) and that it does help keep a healthy physical media market...but the high priced, pro-scalping stuff is dangerous to that market too. luckily even though Imprint/Via Vision kinda caught onto it (not sure if they were successful with their Labyrinth and Neverending Story experiments?), the UK labels don't seem interested in it at all. and we don't expect Criterion or Kino to do the same, for better and worse

[dwk]

I was gonna ask if this was the case, how did Kino releasing Lost Highway not gain more traction, but I'm guessing that's different since Kino was sublicensing it from Universal, whereas Criterion licensed it directly from MK2. but also begs the question about Arrow releasing Dune seemingly without any director involvement at all. hm

Lost Highway had an existing HD master (created for the DVD) that Kino used because Lynch wouldn't agree to supervise a new transfer (clearly because he was getting the rights back just a year or two after Kino licensed the film and why ruin the value of a future release.)

Dune's transfer was done by one of the German labels, so they may have gotten around his involvement that way (or he didn't care about supervising/approving the transfer) but it wouldn't surprise me if Lynch was the reason that Arrow was not able to include the various unauthorized cuts.

[TVC15]

The Keep: "inventory_quantity": 3769. And continues...

They've already sold close to 9,000 copies in less than a day

[colinr0380]

I do love The Keep as kind of a more 'serious' Nazis-vs-the supernatural film than your average Indiana Jones entry, which to be honest is probably the entire reason why the project got greenlit in the first place in a post-Raiders of the Lost Ark search for similar types of stories. Its got a really nice dreamy atmosphere about it, and I remember liking the weird sense of there being no one particularly sympathetic outside of the main female character - the Nazis weirdly become more humanly fallible and fragile as the film goes on and they receive their much deserved comeuppances, whilst the people we are probably meant to sympathise with are literally inhuman seeming (the Scott Glenn character) or thinking that they can get into a kind of Faustian pact with a Golem they did not even play a part in unleashing in the first place! (the Ian McKellen character)

Although I should also say that I first saw it in the mid-90s around the same time as Mariano Baino's similarly vibe-heavy Dark Waters, which also has a dreamy-verging-on-the-illogical religiously-tinged nightmare tone to it! (Plus thematically nicely pairing together 'boat trips to the main location' scenes early on!)

[CSM126]

I’ve heard so much good and bad about The Keep that I couldn’t resist. Stacked it with an existing preorder (Mr. Goodbar and feardotcom). I really can’t justify buying more physical media right now (I am out of shelf space and have Christmas shopping to do), but I couldn’t say no to two long out of print films I’m curious about (and one fascinating failure).

[colinr0380]

Feardotcom has a ridiculously stacked cameo-laden supporting cast for what was basically an attempt to do The Ring but for the internet but with the tail end of the look and feel of the perpetually rainy and gloomily dourly urban Se7en serial killer trend mixed in too, just before that particular subgenre took a turn into the Saw series: Stephen Rea, Udo Kier turning up in the opening scene as the first victim; Jeffrey Combs as the 'crazed explainer' character; Nigel Terry as the gruff police superior officer. Even Michael Sarrazin in one of his last film roles!

It is interesting as one of the few films that is not re-making something from Asia directly (and because of how early on in the period it was made - in 2002 - it didn't seem to be particularly aware at that early stage of Japanese horror's incursion into the West of Kiyoshi Kurosawa's Pulse, which tackles 'Ring but the internet' in a more melancholy and truly haunting way, which did not seem to fully penetrate the US until its mid-2000s DVD release to tie in with the official US Pulse remake) but I can understand why it disappeared as relatively unnecessary almost as soon as The Ring remake from the same year was out there fulfilling the 'US take on Japanese horror' remit, which was the thing that really kicked off all of the directly named remakes for the next few years. Its also really dark - not just content wise, but literally pitch black for the majority of the film, with the most light coming from the harsh glow of computer screens all the better to highlight the character's pallid faces to look extra pasty and haunted, beyond even those of the stereotypical goth characters!

[CSM126]

Yeah, the visuals are probably the best thing about feardotcom. I like Ebert’s comparison to early horror films, as I got much the same feeling when I saw it way back when. It’s kind of amazing that such a muddled script could at least inspire the director and cinematographer to craft such a fascinating film in spite of itself. Hopefully this new restoration does them justice better than the DVD I watched. Well, it would almost have to.

I’m also hopeful that the extras are going to explore that process in some depth. There’s potential for a strong edition here.

[TechnicolorAcid]

If anyone's interested The Keep has a little under 2,000 copies of the limited edition now.

[John Cope]

For those who have never seen The Keep, I recommend checking it out before blind-buying the release. As young tweens when this was first released, I and my horror/fantasy-loving friends (who had even read and enjoyed the F. Paul Wilson source novel) were hoping this was going to be a revelation when we were finally able to get the VHS for a movie night, and we were left absolutely befuddled at the complete and utter mess the film seemed to be.

I revisited it as an adult a few years ago, hoping that I simply wasn't old enough to appreciate it charms, but I thought it was absolutely fucking terrible (and not, I might add, in the wonderful almost outsider artist way that many of those 80s genre films are). It doesn't surprise me that Mann wants to disown the picture. That being said, I know it has its fans and I'm happy a nice edition finally exists for them. But for anyone without a nostalgic glow for the film, approach with caution and check those expectations. Great Tangerine Dream score, though.

And I suppose I have to ask, are the genre nerds now so desperate that they're reclaiming Sliver, for fuck's sake?

FWIW, I wrote about The Keep here (and elsewhere); certainly my own love and admiration for it extends beyond "a nostalgic glow". But then again I also love Sliver and have since its original release, though I don't think I've written on it extensively anywhere yet.

[andyli]

The Keep: "inventory_quantity": 3769. And continues...

They've already sold close to 9,000 copies in less than a day

Not in a day though… since this is the mysterious pre-order title back in early November I suppose a lot of people already pre-ordered this thing long ago to lock in the special price without knowing for sure the identity of the title. I should imagine at least some of them were not completely satisfied when it’s revealed.

[jazzo]

For those who have never seen The Keep, I recommend checking it out before blind-buying the release. As young tweens when this was first released, I and my horror/fantasy-loving friends (who had even read and enjoyed the F. Paul Wilson source novel) were hoping this was going to be a revelation when we were finally able to get the VHS for a movie night, and we were left absolutely befuddled at the complete and utter mess the film seemed to be.

I revisited it as an adult a few years ago, hoping that I simply wasn't old enough to appreciate it charms, but I thought it was absolutely fucking terrible (and not, I might add, in the wonderful almost outsider artist way that many of those 80s genre films are). It doesn't surprise me that Mann wants to disown the picture. That being said, I know it has its fans and I'm happy a nice edition finally exists for them. But for anyone without a nostalgic glow for the film, approach with caution and check those expectations. Great Tangerine Dream score, though.

And I suppose I have to ask, are the genre nerds now so desperate that they're reclaiming Sliver, for fuck's sake?

FWIW, I wrote about The Keep here (and elsewhere); certainly my own love and admiration for it extends beyond "a nostalgic glow". But then again I also love Sliver and have since its original release, though I don't think I've written on it extensively anywhere yet.

It’s worth a lot, Nathaniel! What an excellent piece of writing. You’ve convinced me not to buy the disc, per se, but at least give it a third chance in some other form, now with the echoes of your fine appreciation as a guide.

[dwk]

There is a YouTube interview with someone from VS and he said The Keep came about because someone at Paramount asked Mann's people and he/they gave the OK to release it.

[swo17]

The Keep LE is down to 860 copies