Werner Herzog Collection

[Michael Kerpan]

Still haven't bought the Herzog set -- because I just can't decide which one to get -- US or UK.

[EddieLarkin]

If it helps, every single film that is featured on both sets are given superior presentation in the UK one, in a few cases drastically so.

[What A Disgrace]

I'm wondering where the hell the other films are, myself. Are there any plans to release Even Dwarfs, Signs of Life, etc. in the UK?

[Rayon Vert]

I'm wondering where the hell the other films are, myself. Are there any plans to release Even Dwarfs, Signs of Life, etc. in the UK?

In the Shout! Factory thread, there was this exchange:

Hopefully, Shout release their exclusives (or, at least, Even Dwarfs Started Small) separately as the BFI set is too good a price to pass up. I wonder why neither set includes Signs of Life?

IIRC, Signs of Life was released on DVD by New Yorker, so it's probably a rights issue.

It was produced by Herzog's own production company, along with everything else, but for some reason it's always suffered a different distribution fate, and now seems to have slipped into critical neglect as a consequence. This would be a great title to lobby Criterion about, since it looks like it's currently OOP in R1.

I'd really like to see Signs of Life get a blu-ray release on either side of the pond - it's my favorite of Herzog's along with Aguirre.

[criterion10]

To briefly reiterate my question (which seems to have been relegated to the last page), was it ever stated if this BFI set (like many of their others) was limited? It's almost out of stock on Amazon UK, and I don't want to miss out on it (but would like to wait for it to drop below $80!).

[Rayon Vert]

To briefly reiterate my question (which seems to have been relegated to the last page), was it ever stated if this BFI set (like many of their others) was limited? It's almost out of stock on Amazon UK, and I don't want to miss out on it (but would like to wait for it to drop below $80!).

I'm not seeing anywhere I can find that it's a limited edition.

[ZHansen]

I don't suppose there are any rumblings about a Vol. 2 from BFI? I finally pulled the trigger on this set (only about $40 right now from Amazon UK!) and am trying to decide if I can safely unload the two Anchor Bay sets, or if I should keep them for the stuff missing from the BFI set...

[dda1996a]

There were never such rumblings. This wasn't a vol 1. and as far as I know all the films BFI had the rights to. You can pick up Shout! Factory Herzog box, which has some films the BFI doesn't and lacks some the BFI does.

[M Sanderson]

So sad that Lessons of Darkness couldn't be included, turning up in the highly flawed Shout box only. Obviously the BFI set has a cut off point of around 1987. Different territories, different rights issues, or - you have to stop somewhere.

Wings of Hope is another I miss, when they reconstruct a woman's plane crash horror and subsequent jungle survival. Would've loved to see in HD.

Can't believe I still haven't bought this BFI set, which nonetheless has some of my very favourite films like Aguirre, Nosferatu, Woyzeck, Heart of Glass, etc.

[rapta]

So sad that Lessons of Darkness couldn't be included, turning up in the highly flawed Shout box only. Obviously the BFI set has a cut off point of around 1987. Different territories, different rights issues, or - you have to stop somewhere.

Wings of Hope is another I miss, when they reconstruct a woman's plane crash horror and subsequent jungle survival. Would've loved to see in HD.

Can't believe I still haven't bought this BFI set, which nonetheless has some of my very favourite films like Aguirre, Nosferatu, Woyzeck, Heart of Glass, etc.

Oh, it's definitely one of the best box sets out there. The only downside is the packaging, which could have been so much better.

I too don't know why they couldn't get more than just these films. In the case of Wings of Hope, it could have been that they saw it as a companion piece to Little Dieter Needs to Fly which they couldn't get the rights to (Soda Pictures released it over here on DVD, along with Wheel of Time and The Wild Blue Yonder).

Still, doesn't explain why Even Dwarfs Started Small, Ballad of the Little Soldier, Where the Green Ants Dream, Lessons of Darkness, and My Best Fiend were omitted. Perhaps the BFI or someone else will release those here in the UK one day? Fingers crossed!

[dda1996a]

I'm fairly sure it's a rights issue and nothing else. I highly doubt BFI wouldn't have included them if they could

[MichaelB]

I think Even Dwarfs Started Small was omitted because there was no chance of an uncut release in Britain. Previously, it had been substantially cut for animal cruelty as per the 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act - so not a matter of internal BBFC policy.

[andyli]

There hasn't been a separate thread for stand-alone titles so I'm posting it here. The final specs for the upcoming Aguirre: The Wrath of God 4K:

4K (2160p) UHD Blu-ray presentation in Dolby Vision (HDR10 compatible)
Mark Kermode introduces Aguirre, The Wrath of God (2024, 3 mins)
Feature-length audio commentary with Werner Herzog for both Aguirre, The Wrath of God and Fata Morgana
A Raft of Troubles: Herzog, Kinski and the Art of Darkness (2025, 19 mins): newly recorded video essay by Nic Wassell on the relationship between Werner Herzog and Klaus Kinski
The Unprecedented Defence of the Fortress Deutschkreuz (1967, 16 mins): symbolic drama about four young men hiding from an imagined enemy
Last Words (1968, 13 mins): short film about the last man to leave a former leper colony
Precautions Against Fanatics (1969, 11 mins): short satire about horse-racing enthusiasts
Fata Morgana (1971, 77 mins): hallucinatory film exploring mirages and the Mayan creation myth
Original theatrical trailer
Stills gallery
Original mono audio (German and English)
Alternative 5.1 Surround audio (German)
**FIRST PRESSING ONLY** Illustrated booklet featuring new writing on the film by Geoff Andrew, together with essays by Laurie Johnson, Kim Heaney, and Richard Combs

[andyli]

Nosferatu the Vampyre 4K:

4K (2160p) UHD Blu-ray presentation in Dolby Vision (HDR10 compatible)
Includes both the German and English language versions of the film
Audio commentary with Werner Herzog
Additional audio commentary with Werner Herzog and producer Laurens Straub (in German with English subtitles)
Introduction by Mark Kermode (2016, 3 mins)
Contracting Vampirism: A Copyright History of Nosferatu (2025, 15 mins): a new video essay by filmmaker and photographer Nic Wassell
Screen Talk: Werner Herzog (2016, 69 mins): Werner Herzog reflects on his career in this on-stage interview with broadcaster Francine Stock at the BFI London Film Festival
Making of Nosferatu the Vampyre (1979, 13 mins): Herzog discusses the film and his philosophy of filmmaking alongside behind-the-scenes footage of the cast and crew
Original theatrical trailer
Stills gallery
LPCM 1.0 mono audio (German and English)
DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio (German version only)

[MichaelB]

I thought people might appreciate a direct comparison between the new 4K discs and the earlier BDs.

Aguirre:

Common to both:

• Original mono audio (German and English);
• Alternative 5.1 Surround audio (German);
• Feature-length audio commentaries with Werner Herzog for both Aguirre, Wrath of God and Fata Morgana;
• The Unprecedented Defence of the Fortress Deutschkreuz (1967, 16 mins): symbolic drama about four young men hiding from an imagined enemy;
• Last Words (1968, 13 mins): short film about the last man to leave a former leper colony;
• Precautions Against Fanatics (Werner Herzog, 1969, 11 mins): short satire about horse-racing enthusiasts;
• Fata Morgana (Werner Herzog, 1971, 77 mins): hallucinatory film exploring mirages and the Mayan creation myth;
• Original theatrical trailer;
• Stills gallery;

Unique to BD:

• Limited Edition SteelBook™;

Unique to UHD:

• 4K (2160p) UHD Blu-ray presentation in Dolby Vision (HDR10 compatible)
• Mark Kermode introduces Aguirre, The Wrath of God (2024, 3 mins)
• A Raft of Troubles: Herzog, Kinski and the Art of Darkness (2025, 19 mins): newly recorded video essay by Nic Wassell on the relationship between Werner Herzog and Klaus Kinski

Nosferatu the Vampyre:

Common to both:

• Newly remastered presentations of the English and German versions;
• Original mono audio (German and English);
• Alternative 5.1 Surround audio (German);
• Feature-length audio commentary with Werner Herzog;
• On-set documentary (1979, 13 mins): promotional film featuring candid interviews with Werner Herzog and Klaus Kinski;
• Original theatrical trailer;
• Stills gallery;
• Illustrated booklet with a new essay by Laurie Johnson, full film credits and on-set photographs.

Unique to BD:

• Limited Edition SteelBook™;

Unique to UHD:

• 4K (2160p) UHD Blu-ray presentation in Dolby Vision (HDR10 compatible)
• Additional audio commentary with Werner Herzog and producer Laurens Straub (in German with English subtitles)
• Introduction by Mark Kermode (2016, 3 mins)
• Contracting Vampirism: A Copyright History of Nosferatu (2025, 15 mins): a new video essay by filmmaker and photographer Nic Wassell
• Screen Talk: Werner Herzog (2016, 69 mins): Werner Herzog reflects on his career in this on-stage interview with broadcaster Francine Stock at the BFI London Film Festival

The booklets also look as though they've been expanded.

[What A Disgrace]

Apparently the 4Ks of both Aguirre and Nosferatu are taken from compromised masters, whereas Shout! is utilizing in-house masters for their releases.

[TMDaines]

There's a post on Reddit ranting about the use of AI with Nosferatu, but I cannot see the usual signs. It just looks devoid of grain.

[TMDaines]

I've seen Ben Stoddart has commented on Aguirre that they "either had to release the master we were delivered or cancel the release entirely. The later wasn't something we were going to do." I think that's terrible look when you consider the price of 4K UHD releases. This isn't a super expensive one packaged with loads of crap, but it will make people think twice about blind buying or waiting for reviews for future BFI 4K UHDs.

Shout have done their own masters.

[EddieLarkin]

Man, I thought Aguirre was bad enough but Nosferatu looks horrendous.

The BFI cannot on the one hand have this oft repeated principle of only releasing on UHD when the quality of the elements/master really calls for it, and then release a turd like this as an admitted cash grab.

I feel sorry for them being put in this position but the only real option was to cancel the release. Perhaps a few years down the line they would have had the option of licensing from Shout.

[What A Disgrace]

I really hope the good folks at DiabolikDVD who are in charge of cancelling orders are faster runners than the good folks at DiabolikDVD who are in charge of shipping them out.

[foggy eyes]

I've seen Ben Stoddart has commented on Aguirre that they "either had to release the master we were delivered or cancel the release entirely. The later wasn't something we were going to do." I think that's terrible look when you consider the price of 4K UHD releases. This isn't a super expensive one packaged with loads of crap, but it will make people think twice about blind buying or waiting for reviews for future BFI 4K UHDs.

Asking a question out of sheer ignorance - how come a release is announced and started before the master is a known quantity? Surely you'd want to know exactly what you were stamping your name on, and whether it was fully release-worthy, beforehand?

[tenia]

It happens that you deal with a rightholder, who tells you to pay first and then see later. At best, you might get a sample of the master, which might turn out not to be representative, and/or might need to pay extra to obtain.
In such cases, you're screwed if the whole master turns out to be a turd, and if you're not dealing with a notoriously untrustworthy rightholder, that might come as a very unpleasant surprise : you're out of the money, which you'll need to recoup somehow, and have a master that will hurt your tech reputation if released as is.
But some rightholders are like this, and because of the very interesting movies they might own, they stay in business.

(There are also a few rightholders who make you believe they have the rights, except they don't, and you're the one getting sued when releasing the title)

[foggy eyes]

It happens that you deal with a rightholder, who tells you to pay first and then see later. At best, you might get a sample of the master, which might turn out not to be representative, and/or might need to pay extra to obtain.
In such cases, you're screwed if the whole master turns out to be a turd, and if you're not dealing with a notoriously untrustworthy rightholder, that might come as a very unpleasant surprise : you're out of the money, which you'll need to recoup somehow, and have a master that will hurt your tech reputation if released as is.
But some rightholders are like this, and because of the very interesting movies they might own, they stay in business.

Makes sense. Cheers!

[tenia]

Note that I have no idea if this is the case here. However, having discussed with several French and a few UK labels about why the hell are they doing this to themselves, that's the main answer I got. It's a shame, but it is what it is, though fortunately, there are cases we never hear about because the rightholder sent a proper sample beforehand, it was rubbish, and the label simply passed.

[EddieLarkin]

Ironically though, Alpha Omega have had a shoddy approach to restoration for a long time, evidenced by the fact the BD era restorations of Aguirre and Nosferatu were crap as well, so crap that... the BFI did their own restorations from the raw scans! Back then, Shout didn't bother, which is why the BFI BDs were so superior. Now it's the other way around.

But it shows up the BFI even more because they must have known what they were in for. If in dealing with Alpha Omega a decade ago meant forking out to redo their work, it was very likely going to be necessary again for 4K (in the end, even more so).

Perhaps they looked at the BD sales figures and realised making the numbers work was impossible, but again, the answer is to cancel the release, not tarnish your reputation. Especially if terrible AI restoration is involved, which now seems to be the consensus. First Eureka and now the BFI, labels need to realise that supporting any AI tomfoolery, even indirectly, is going to lead to a big backlash and (hopefully) a significant hit in sales.