107 Va savoir

[zedz]

I watched the entirety of Va Savoir + yesterday and had a wonderful time. I've always loved this film as one of Rivette's funniest and most playful (which is saying something), and the original cut* just offered more time in Rivette-world and more time with his gorgeous, fluid mise-en-scene. The main difference I noticed is that the original version had a lot more Pirandello, but unlike most of his other theatrical films, what we see here are extracts from the finished production, so, with very little overlap in content, the film ends up presenting what I assume is a near-complete performance of Come tu mi vuoi, but one in scrambled order.

* According to Johnathan Romney's video piece, Va Savoir + is the actual "theatrical cut", and the shortened version was a contractually required television cut. That secondary version ended up being the widely released one, and the director's cut ended up being shown in a single cinema for a week (presumably to satisfy contractual requirements for a theatrical release.) Because the shorter version uses some different footage for shared scenes, presumably they were "second-choice" takes.

[diamonds]

In this interview from 2002, Rivette confirms the takes chosen in Va Savoir + are indeed "the takes we thought were the best." Va Savoir is one of my favorite of all films, and revisiting it in the long version (not to mention a revelatory new restoration!) was a supreme pleasure for the reasons you describe. I could have watched three more hours, easily. I didn't want it to end!

I've only done a cursory investigation into the more minute differences between the cuts (and haven't looked at the extras yet to see what's covered), but it's fascinating how many little changes there are, compressions etc. The scene where Ugo and Do are walking along the water has a different choreography and "feel" in the longer cut.

Spoiler

Their kiss ends up flipped!

There's also one tiny difference I noticed that I've been meaning to write about in the "Perfect Moments" thread. Perhaps I will soon.

[Noiretirc]

I think the longer cut is great, and also disliked the original version. My thoughts on why

Revisited Va Savoir vis the longer cut. The first hour really dragged, and I almost turned it off thinking I’d hate it as much as I did the truncated version, but the cumulative vibe started to gel shortly into its second hour and I wound up really enjoying what Rivette was doing here. What becomes apparent in the end of even the short version is that Rivette is playing with screwball devices, but the original rhythm destroyed the necessary breathing room Rivette depends upon to aesthetically craft his intentions. It may read as oxymoronic, but in holding space for a tone to develop, the long cut flies by effortlessly starting in its second hour whereas the short cut never escaped its curious condensing of ideas to ascend beyond a slog. There was no reason to buy in when economy usurped a lucid flow, but here the comedy and drama finally blend and trade off well together. The moods are inserted inside Russian dolls storytelling and labyrinthine webs of extremely banal mysteries, even by Rivette’s standards. The joke seems to be in dissipating the mirage of rich gravitas present in his other work to focus more on a Woody Allen-esque sheen of light whimsical spirit. It's not among his very best films, but it does feel like the logical endpoint for his epic anti-mysteries, especially after he pushed the boundaries of his ethos into an entirely new genre of musical and then obliterated his anti-paranoia with a tangible answer in Secret Defense. It's much like how Woody Allen recalibrated all his past works' tropes and motifs into a diluted piece of lovely fluff in A Rainy Day in New York, as an old man therapeutically approaching the same content and concerns he's addressed throughout his career with a developed serenity from self-actualization. I thought Va Savoir played entirely differently with its extra third put back in place, and highly recommend anyone with access gives it another go when you have four hours to spare

Fantastic, thanks. I'm criminally late to this party, and my first question was going to be "Is the theatrical version worth watching?" (Both Out 1 and Spectre are magnificent imho.)

(Slight asides: Will someone make the Jeanne la Pucelle thread soon? I pre-ordered that yesterday, along with this. My research and math tell me that direct from Radiance, with shipping to Canada, is cheaper than what I am seeing in Canada!)

[MichaelB]

(Slight asides: Will someone make the Jeanne la Pucelle thread soon? I pre-ordered that yesterday, along with this. My research and math tell me that direct from Radiance, with shipping to Canada, is cheaper than what I am seeing in Canada!)

This one? It's been live for more than a day.

[Noiretirc]

Oh shit! Sorry. (Index?)

Thanks!

[therewillbeblus]

(Both Out 1 and Spectre are magnificent imho.)

I've still never seen Spectre but should probably remedy that blind spot. It seems like some of my LB friends even prefer it to the longer cut!

[knives]

(I do)

[Never Cursed]

(Both Out 1 and Spectre are magnificent imho.)

I've still never seen Spectre but should probably remedy that blind spot. It seems like some of my LB friends even prefer it to the longer cut!

I haven't seen it, but if it shapes Noli Me Tangere into a form it can't be worse

[Noiretirc]

For me, Spectre is a reimagined version of Noli Me Tangere. The brilliant re-editing of the long film presents a wholly new angle / feel / pace / focus. (Perhaps there's even a few little things in Spectre that were not in Noli Me Tangere? I can't recall.) It's proof that you can re-edit some films and amplify / reveal fresh layers to it.

That does not seem to be the result / intent in the versions of Va Savoir though, does it?

(I chuckle at the preference of Spectre over Noli Me Tangere for some. Could 13 hours have anything to do with it?)

[Never Cursed]

(I chuckle at the preference of Spectre over Noli Me Tangere for some. Could 13 hours have anything to do with it?)

I mean, the prospect of watching a version of the film that drops the endless acting class sequences sounds more appealing than a straight rewatch. I actually don't mind the play stuff all that much in L'amour Fou, but it adds nothing to Out 1.

[spectre]

Although my username might suggest otherwise, I don't really have a preference – both are excellent in their own right and have their own distinct pace and structure. I generally recommend though that people encounter Noli me tangere first; watching Spectre first is inevitably going to rob a first-time viewer of some of the pleasure of discovering the film's unfolding twists and turns – plus, it's going to be a little harder to motivate yourself to sit through 13 hours when you've already seen the highlight reel …

[denti alligator]

Consensus seems to be the “director’s cut” is the one to watch. Even for those who’ve never seen it before? It’s on my must-watch 2001 list.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

[Noiretirc]

Consensus seems to be the “director’s cut” is the one to watch. Even for those who’ve never seen it before? It’s on my must-watch 2001 list.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

Well, you'd better get around to it then!

I maintain that Spectre is brilliantly edited into a very different beast than it's mother. If you love one, the other is essential viewing, imho. The versions compliment each other.

[MichaelB]

See also both versions of La Belle Noiseuse - Divertimento is radically different.

And John Cassavetes' The Killing of a Chinese Bookie, where the shorter cut has a ton of material that isn't in the longer cut and is paced entirely differently to the point where the shorter cut may be a good first Cassavetes recommendation, whereas the longer cut absolutely isn't for beginners!

[Lowry_Sam]

I had been ignoring this thread because I had seen it during its theatrical run & didn't enjoy it, but seeing how much discussion there was in thread decided to see what all the fuss was about. I guess I will have to check out the longer cut now.