Rainer Werner Fassbinder

[spencerw]

Arrow have a two-for-the-price-of-one offer on the new Fassbinders. See: http://tinyurl.com/q9lne

[Grimfarrow]

Crap, they're showing Berlin Alexanderplatz in Hong Kong its entirely in September, but of course I'm away in New York at the time. Great timing...not.

[Lino]

Several years ago, they played Alexanderplatz in the Serralves Foundation (the MoMA of Portugal), here in Oporto. They showed it in two saturdays and I had tickets for both sessions. Regrettably, I failed the second one, so I'll only know how it all ends when Criterion finally releases their set. Still kicking myself in the butt for that. Great, great TV series, though. Images still visit me once in a while.

[Lemmy Caution]

Crap, they're showing Berlin Alexanderplatz in Hong Kong its entirely in September, but of course I'm away in New York at the time. Great timing...not.

Thanks for the news.

I'm on the Mainland, and will be down in Hong Kong a week after the screenings (during the National Day holiday).
As Berlin Alexanderplatz is spread out over 4 days, it would be tough to manage the whole thing even if living in HK. Roughly 3 hours a day, with a double showing on the last day, comprising about 7 hours of BA.

Who knows, maybe I can invent some business reason to be down in HK a week early.

[Telstar]

Haven't seen any reviews of this posted yet, so I just wanted to put in my two cents worth on the new-ish R1 edition of Fassbinder's remarkable THIRD GENERATION. Not sure about the aspect ratio (although it seems to reflect what I remember seeing in the theater back in the day), but the image quality looks at a glance to be surprisingly strong, and there's even a nice supplemental interview with Fassbinder's longtime editor Juliane Lorenz.

[denti alligator]

Matt, are the subs removeable on the Third Generation disc?

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Can someone shed some light on why Fassbinder is contextualized in terms of what Godard did earlier? I've read different film history overviews and this gets mentioned sometimes. I don't see a connection, though. When I think of what both directors do with editing or what stories they film, for instance, both couldn't seem more different. Excepting some of his early work, Fassbinder doesn't seem particularly Godardian. Am I missing something?

[David Ehrenstein]

Fassbinder and Godard captured the zeitgeist of their eras -- the 70's and 60's respectively. They were both prolific, culturally well-informed and politically left-wing. Other than that they have nothing in common.

[accatone]

Bear in mind that the "Late Godard" gives lots of respect for Fassbinder in the case that "he made the films he had to do" as a post war German. In one of the last interviews Fassbinder named Godard as one of his most admired directors - giving him a special note ahead of the obvious Sirk (IMO). Again obvious, Fassbinder named VIVRE SA VIE his favourite Godard film many times.

Just re-watched ANGST ESSEN SEELE AUF twice with the students this week and even in a melodramtic flick like this you can see a pretty serious Fassbinder not just interested in the narrative but the image and sound and the medium in general. I know that there is a big "Melodram-Posse":) but truly believe that if he could, Fassbinder would have start "deconstructing" movies as well - mostly because of his obsession with (his/german) history and his disbelieve in cinema as a medium of truth. This goes along with his insecurity concerning politics - i wouldn't even call him left wing (in a traditional way!).

So i think there are not that many "technical" similarities but what they both tried to get out of cinema…aurguable who made the most out of it i think it is more a personal question…

[accatone]

"Ironic" is a good term in this case! (as with Godard) Everybody is just talking about him as being the "mad crazy freak" obsessed by his parents history excluding the fact that he was also looking for a world behind cinema… As far as getting 20 year old students into Fassbinder (even Godard), i think the term "ironic" is also important (of course without taking away any of its seriousness!). The "High Art Tag" is so obvious and takes away so much "fun" of watching those films…makes me sad! (I know what i am talking about - met so many film students really pissed off because profs. tried to infiltrate the "serious" stuff without letting them get a feel for those kind of films). Of course getting students into good movies is something totally different than "fighting for some director" on an internet platform - just btw. If you can create an atmosphere - sounds esotheric...urghh - it can be really enjoyable for the 20somethings watching Fassbinder and and make them (more) aware of the powerfull medium of motion pictures and sound - social/historical awareness might be inclueded… And the Left…

[brunosh]

Funnily enough, in the cinephilia section of the undergraduate film degree course my daughter is taking, the students were shown, studied and discussed 'All That Heaven Allows' and 'Fear Eats the Soul' during successive weeks last month. She tells me that 'Fear Eats the Soul' got a good response, considerably better than the Sirk (although neither were liked as much as the two other films covered last month, 'Spirit of the Beehive' and 'Jules et Jim').

[zedz]

Fassbinder & Godard

'Core' Fassbinder and 'core' Godard are very different beasts, but RWF's very earliest films were strongly inspired by JLG (and, other than Straub / Huillet, not much else). Several of them seem to sprout specifically from Band of Outsiders. So you get the requisite third-hand Sam Fuller scenarios, listless delinquents, 'uncinematic' downtime, and flashes of absurdism and reflexive stylisation, but Fassbinder's personality is already showing through. His politics are less theoretical, he's more engaged with his stock company, and, at this point, he really lacks the knack of delivering conventional filmic pleasures (which is one of the things I find most fascinating about those first half-dozen or so films - even when he's trying to offer genre thrills, the effect is austere and alien).

There are sporadic nods to Godard throughout RWF's later career, notably cast members (Karina, Constantine). The Third Generation, with its abrasive, overloaded soundtrack, seems to me particularly Godardian.

Fassbinder & Melodrama

Fassbinder 'discovered' Sirk just before Merchant of Four Seasons, and from then on he starts delivering that lovely, glossy veneer that makes the putrid innards of films like Martha or Chinese Roulette all the more shocking. But I think it's worth looking at the ways in which he co-opted Hollywood melodrama even before this. Whity is a case in point. It's not Sirk, but he's gleefully (under)mining Hollywood models for this film, and there's even use of that signature swoonsome circling shot that he would use so beautifully in the Sirk-derived films (most elaborately in Martha, but I think he also uses it for the outdoor meal in Ali). Post-Merchant, RWF demonstrated expert mimicry when so required, my favourite example probably being Effi Briest, in which he stylistically pillages another kind of melodrama entirely.

[David Ehrenstein]

The model for Whity was Walsh's Band of Angels.

[tryavna]

Walsh's Band of Angels.

shudder

Easily the worst of Walsh's films that I've seen. (And Walsh had some doozies!) Can't imagine how it would inspire or serve as the model for anything....

[tryavna]

Ahh Tryavna we rarely disagree. But look at the Walsh again.

Really? It's been a couple of years, so maybe I shall. I mainly remember it as being extremely problematic in its racial politics (especially Gable's background as a benevolent (!?) slave-trader) and heavily imitative of Gone With the Wind.

[Matt]

Matt, are the subs removeable on the Third Generation disc?

Yes.

[zombeaner]

Where to start. I'm interested in watching some Fassbinder, I have Why Has Herr R Run Amok on the way from Netflix. Any other suggestions. My local Tower records has two copies of the BDR Trilogy left and I may pick them up if the price drops some more, but I wanted some input.

[colinr0380]

I'd definitely go for the BRD set. I haven't seen many of Fassbinder's films but I think these three are said to be some of his best. For me this set also stands as the Criterion benchmark - the best DVD package they have produced so far.

[Der Müde Tod]

Where to start. I'm interested in watching some Fassbinder, I have Why Has Herr R Run Amok on the way from Netflix. Any other suggestions. My local Tower records has two copies of the BDR Trilogy left and I may pick them up if the price drops some more, but I wanted some input.

I second the recommendation of getting the BRD trilogy. If you are looking for something more radical, go for In a Year of 13 Moons and Chinese Roulette.

[jorencain]

Check this thread for all kinds of suggestions, but "Martha" is another great one to start out with.

[Cold Bishop]

As someone who has barely begun getting into the films of Fassbinder, I'd highly recommend In A Year With 13 Moons, which I thought was fantastic (and didn't really see as entirely all that radical). This, after being underwhelmed by Fear Eats The Soul, really is the film that has turned me on to Fassbinder. Next up, Martha..

[zedz]

Where to start. I'm interested in watching some Fassbinder, I have Why Has Herr R Run Amok on the way from Netflix. Any other suggestions. My local Tower records has two copies of the BDR Trilogy left and I may pick them up if the price drops some more, but I wanted some input.

See above for plenty of suggestions, but be advised that Herr R is strong stuff and in many respects atypical. The two collaborations with Fengler, with their long plans-sequence, sort of occupy their own space slightly to the left of the mainstream of Fassbinder's work. As an entry point, any of the many post-Merchant rancid melodramas would be better.

[zombeaner]

Strong stuff is generally up my alley, I will move onto to something else next time though, to get a better overall picture.

[mikeohhh]

I started with The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant, which I wouldn't recommend to a newbie. Then I saw the BRD trilogy and, more recently, In a Year with 13 Moons and yeah, Fassbinder's one of the best.

[terabin]

This, after being underwhelmed by Fear Eats The Soul, really is the film that has turned me on to Fassbinder.

Similarly, I have little experience with Fassbinder, but watching Ali last night, I felt the exact opposite about it. Simply made in 14 days ("made on a shoestring" as Ebert says), this film is an unblinking story of two lovers showing kindness to each other in the midst of a cruel world. The images of Ali and Emmi together in her apartment are what ground the film when Fassbinder focuses on the racism surrounding the couple from that point on.