DVDBeaver Comparisons

[Gary Tooze]

This same discussion arose when talking about Criterion's Black Narcissus and its package statement 'Breathtaking new digital transfer, created with the participation of cinematographer Jack Cardiff'. We have since seen many of those colors were highly digitized/manipulated when looking at the later Network (UK) and, further supported by, the Warner Home Vidéo (France) editions.

If I had the choice of the involvement of principles in the DVD rendering - I would always accept it, but history shows us that it may not always create the definitive version. BUT what it usually means is those same individuals will be a part of the supplements. This is a good thing.
***

It's good thing you added your name at the end of your post, otherwise we'd have no idea who wrote it...

Dear bearcuborg,
You have my profoundest apologies for my adding my name at the end of my post. It is an error I will regret for many years. I can see why it was so upsetting to you that you needed to make such an intelligent, useful post in this thread/discussion. Thank you for that.

Now, for everyone else - Is the number of little assholes on this board on the vast increase?

Regards,
Gary (ooopps - did it again - I may never live it down)

[MichaelB]

With The Last Emperor followed by Ice Storm back2back, (not to mention Gertrud), the whole Director Approved spiel should be retired. In some cases it's an obstacle to historical accuracy by allowing "memory" to trump unvested hard evidence... not to mention vanity-driven revisionism. I still hold that in many cases the director and cinematographer should be the parties specifically BANNED from the telecine process.

My colleagues always say that the best directors to work with are the dead ones...

[MichaelB]

But Michael what about their VERY MUCH ALIVE widows?Nieces, Daughetrs etc...

In general, the toughest thing about dealing with them is securing permission in the first place - subsequent hands-on interference is thankfully rare.

[Person]

I have only seen The Ice Storm once - it was about four years ago. I don't recall the swinger party scene looking that dark and greenish. It just looked like your classic overly-lit living room from the 70s. The Fox transfer, though too bright and contrasty, has the more natural color scheme. The whites (kitchen worktops; the women's clothes) look horrible on the Criterion to my eyes. That's one of the problems of adding a tinge of colour in a telecine, it can really soil the whites, if you pardon the expression.

I think that the whole 'director or cinematographer participation in the transfer' thing has became too much of a big deal. In most cases, a straight transfer of a neg or IP with corrections of colours that are clearly off due to shooting conditions or fading is USUALLY enough. Then there are cases where a transfer was supervised by the director and approved, but then a later transfer was made without that director's input and the telecine op bungled the transfer; case in point Joe Dante's, The Howling where the SE's colour scheme looks like poop compared to the LD. Then there are cases were a studio - MGM again, actually - bungled a transfer, but then did a new one when the DP disapproved of it, ie. The Long Goodbye. So it can be a good thing to have the creator(s) of the film participate in the transfer, but sometimes it gets a bit silly. The recent "yellows turned to pink" in the new transfer of The Shining was something else, of course. The scrutiny that transfers are now subjected to is really quite extraordinary (in a good way, of course). But how often are the the mistakes or misjudgements consciously corrected? Rarely. I can recall, Kiss Me Kate, Lawrence of Arabia... struggling here.

[Gary Tooze]

One new...

Minerva Classic - Region 0 - PAL "L'amore in Citta" vs. Optimum - Region 2 - PAL

Also, Leonard has compared many caps in his Hitchcock - The British Years review.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Cheers,

[Oedipax]

That's one of the problems of adding a tinge of colour in a telecine, it can really soil the whites, if you pardon the expression.

Agreed, but to get off on just a slight tangent... the whole reason for having professionals to oversee this kind of thing is to avoid exactly the pitfalls you mention. Anyone can twiddle a few nobs and push the image towards being more blue or red or green or what have you. It takes someone with experience to maintain correct skin tones and keep the whites from looking unintentionally funky while at the same time creating a unique look. That's real color grading.

[colinr0380]

My colleagues always say that the best directors to work with are the dead ones...

So you mean they have to be bumped off - I think I understand what happened to Bergman and Antonioni now!

Criterion obviously sent a couple of interns in to 'scare' Bergman into allowing Peter Cowie to record another commentary on Sawdust and Tinsel and unfortunately they were too enthusiastic in their ministrations! Antonioni found out about this and so had to be 'dealt with' before he could warn the world! (I'm rivalling Marion Cotillard for wild conspiracy theories tonight! )

[MichaelB]

Agreed, but to get off on just a slight tangent... the whole reason for having professionals to oversee this kind of thing is to avoid exactly the pitfalls you mention. Anyone can twiddle a few nobs and push the image towards being more blue or red or green or what have you. It takes someone with experience to maintain correct skin tones and keep the whites from looking unintentionally funky while at the same time creating a unique look. That's real color grading.

And it's doubly important if the colour scheme is deliberately unconventional - to the untrained eye, the BFI's Le Cercle Rouge looks "wrong" compared with the Criterion, but it's the latter that's been "corrected", whereas the BFI tried to match the original desaturated colours.

[miless]

what ever happened to the comparison for A Zed & Two Noughts?

[Rich Malloy]

Now, for everyone else - Is the number of little assholes on this board on the vast increase?

The answer is a resounding "yes", and the little remark you quoted is a perfect example.

And let me add this to the little jerk who is now representative of that assholery: you haven't done shit for this community, whereas Gary has devoted no small amount of time and effort to producing one of the best comparitive sites on the web. He acknowledges valid criticisms, and constantly seeks to improve his methodology. By way of comparison, your pathetic, contemptuous little swipes do nothing but make this place more like the other rot on the web. I invite you to leave.

[Gary Tooze]

Three new (thanks to Per-Olaf!)...

Artificial Eye - Region 2 - PAL "Eros" vs. Mei Ah - Region 0 - NTSC vs. Mei Ah (2 disc limited edition) - Region 0 - NTSC vs. Warner - Region 1 - NTSC

Dolmen Home Video - Region 2 - PAL "Blue" vs. Artificial Eye - Region 2 - PAL

Artificial Eye - Region 2 - PAL "When Father Was Away On Business" vs. Koch Lorber - Region 0 - NTSC

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Cheers,

[hddvdreviews]

the screencap that gary is using for the title is NOT "yiheyuan".

those characters are "you dian suo", or "postal and electric service center".

you need to look for these characters .

[Gary Tooze]

2 more... finally a decent Cry of the City...

UFA (Germany) - Region 2 - PAL "Cry of the City" vs. BFI - Region 2 - PAL vs. Carlotta Films - Region 2 - PAL vs. Suevia Films - Region 0 - PAL

20th Century Fox - Region 1 - NTSC "House of Bamboo" vs. UFA (Germany) - Region 2 - PAL

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Best,

[Mr Sausage]

the screencap that gary is using for the title is NOT "yiheyuan".

those characters are "you dian suo", or "postal and electric service center".

you need to look for these characters ..

Send this shit to Gary's PM-box if you must, and don't clutter the boards by posting it twice, either. I don't want to spend my days cleaning up after you.

[alfons416]

Dolmen Home Video - Region 2 - PAL "Blue" vs. Artificial Eye - Region 2 - PAL

Are you sure those Blue caps are exact frame matches

[Tommaso]

Re Jarman's "Blue": As the AE seems to be truly disappointing, I'd like to point out that there is (or was, maybe OOP) an alternative, the German disc from Edition Salzgeber. It's only shortcoming is that the credits are in German. Otherwise I can't remember anything like reel-change marks, lots of scratches etc. It has a nice documentary on top of it. "Glitterbug" is also available from RaroVideo, just in case anyone wants the AE because of that film. Another comparison with those two discs included would be welcome.

[MichaelB]

Re Jarman's "Blue": As the AE seems to be truly disappointing

This is very much a matter of opinion. As I argued in my Sight & Sound review, the presence of dirt and other blemishes - which are nowhere near as excessive as Gary implies - could be said to enhance the viewing experience by offering a reminder of Jarman's defiantly lo-fi aesthetic.

Otherwise, why not just generate a perfect blue screen electronically?

Come to think of it, because my 43" telly generates a blue screen at pretty close to the correct shade when no channels are selected, I could always switch to that and just play the soundtrack!

[Tommaso]

Michael, in order not to hi-jack this thread, I replied to your points in the "Blue" thread.

[Gary Tooze]

New...

Artificial Eye - Region 2 - PAL “Moolaadé” vs. New Yorker (2-disc) - Region 1- NTSC

Universal - Region - 1 - NTSC "Lost Highway" vs. Cinema Club (2-disc SE) - Region 2- PAL vs. Shock Records (Australia) - Region 0 - PAL vs. mk2 (2 disc Edition Limitee) - Region 2 - PAL

Kino Video - Region 1 - NTSC "Five" vs. BFI Region 2 - PAL

New comparison thanks to Eric...

Blue Underground - Region 1 - NTSC "Eugenie de Sade" vs. Wild East - Region 0 - NTSC vs. Oracle Entertainment - Region 0 - PAL

Those keen on the upcoming DVD releases of Frank Darabont's The Mist - in our review we have compared the theatrical color version with a few screen grabs from the black and white one on the 2nd disc on the Collector's Edition.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Cheers,

[Gary Tooze]

New...

Alive Film - Region 0 - PAL "Blast of Silence" vs. Criterion - Region 1 - NTSC

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Best,

[jt]

Hey Gary, you have any plans to look at the Tartan Eisenstein sets and compare them to the CC's?

[Gary Tooze]

Hi jt,
No not yet. I'm quite swamped with stuff to review at present.
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New comparison...

Lionsgate - Region 1 - NTSC "L'Appartement" vs. BITWIN - Region 3 - NTSC vs. BITWIN (possible bootleg) Region 0 NTSC vs. M6 Home Vidéo Region 0 - PAL vs. Artificial Eye - Region 2 - PAL

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Best,

[Gary Tooze]

From the upcoming Bette Davis Centenary Celebration Collection (which we will review entirely in the next 24 hours)

20th Century Fox - Region 2,4 - PAL "The Virgin Queen" vs. 20th Century Fox - Region 1 - NTSCNew

20th Century Fox "Studio Classics" - Region 1 - NTSC "Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte" vs. 20th Century Fox 'Cinema Classics Collection' - Region 1 - NTSC

Studio Classics edition from 2005 is 1.66:1


New Cinema Classics (also in the Bette Davis Centenary Celebration Collection) is 1.85:1


http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Best,
Gary

[Gary Tooze]

New...

Fox Lorber - Region 0 - NTSC "La Notte" vs. Eureka (Masters of Cinema) - Region 0 - PAL

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Best,

[Gary Tooze]

New...

Optimum Home Entertainment - Region 2 - PAL "The Watchmaker of St. Paul" vs. Kino Video - Region 0 - NTSC

Kino


Optimum


Luckily Kino were only charging $26.99 for their single-layered, bare-bones, non-anamorphic, interlaced, cropped release with the burned-in subtitles.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/

Best,