Jean-Luc Godard

[FerdinandGriffon]

The reshoots included a number of scenes inserted into the original pilot, such as Club Silencio (the best scene in the movie) and the love affair between Betty and Rita, which make it much the better, I think most would agree. But I'm surprised you say its "small screen roots" show, since nothing Lynch makes for tv, Twin Peaks included, seems like tv: it always has that cinematic feel. I don't believe he shoots tv shows any different than movies.

And I'll just add, because it's the Godard thread, how heartbreaking it is to see Contempt trashed and dismissed. It's the only Godard film I feel anything more than ambivilance for (indeed, I adore it), and people are just going to town on it. I imagine the effect is like hearing a group of people discuss how much they hate your girlfriend.

I think it's interesting that your favorite scenes in the movie ( and mine as well) are those that were shot after the decision to switch to the feature film format. I think that Mulholland definitely has a (top quality) TV feel, but then all of his films do. That's part of the Lynch aesthetic, 50's TV retro with dashes of daytime soap thrown in just to get the juices flowing. So, for me, Mulholland definitely seems TV to me, but I'm also aware that that may be to a great degree intentional. I would say that Twin Peaks is his masterpiece, so maybe TV is really his natural environment. (That's not meant as a put down.)

I feel as if Contempt gets picked on a lot here because it's Godard's most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed. And, as Godard's Antonioni film, it also gets a lot of the same negative reactions that the Italian does.

Michael, I started to watch Inland Empire a couple months ago and I just didn't have the patience for it. I got to the part with Laura Palmer's mother babbling in a campy pseudo-eastern european accent and realized that I just wasn't in the mood for three hours of Lynchisms, so I ejected it. I think Lynch is a little overrated, but I should also give Inland Empire, beloved as it is, a proper chance, so it's something I'll return to soon, when I'm in a more open mind.

[Noiretirc]

The generally low regard for Le Petit Soldat mystifies me. While viewing it again last night, I was most in awe of the degree of care and innovation that went into the sound design of this daring film. (And how it paralleled Notre Musique's sound in many ways!) I don't consider this to be the soggy soph that many do. I particularly admire the abruptness of the ending. Hitch's Lady Vanishes or Frenzy has nothing on the lean-ness of this curtain close. It leaves me, um, breathless.

[cinemartin]

I agree with your assessment of the sound design in that picture, but I feel that JLG was very preoccupied with his seduction of Karina to devote as much thought to the actual film, thus making it one of his lesser efforts.

[Michael]

I feel as if Contempt gets picked on a lot here because it's Godard's most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed. And, as Godard's Antonioni film, it also gets a lot of the same negative reactions that the Italian does.

I don't think so because if you go over to the Lists Project, you will find that Contempt is #1 of Godard's 1960s films. It's ranked pretty high on the 1960s list. And so is L'eclisse, ranked at #2. I would take L'eclisse over Contempt by around the universe millions times but that's me. If only Godard could create a frame to match the luminousity of Vitti laughing as a black poodle hopping by or the silencing power of a man doodling flowers on a cocktail napkin after losing everything.

[LQ]

The generally low regard for Le Petit Soldat mystifies me. While viewing it again last night, I was most in awe of the degree of care and innovation that went into the sound design of this daring film.

I like Le Petit Soldat well enough, but I tend to relegate it to the back of the Godard stack mostly because of the performance of Michel Subor, he just doesn't do it for me. He's not bad by any means, he's just kind of a nondescript...guy. He doesn't have the craggy charisma of Eddie Constantine, and he certainly doesn't have the coolness of Belmondo. Petty things to say especially considering the tone and content of the story, but it keeps me from loving Soldat. And cinemartin's got a good point.

[HerrSchreck]

I feel as if Contempt gets picked on a lot here because it's Godard's most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed. And, as Godard's Antonioni film, it also gets a lot of the same negative reactions that the Italian does.

You write this as though none of the reasons could possibly have anything to do with the film itself. If you read the posts you'll see none of these reasons you propose have anything to do with the disdain for the film above.

I can't recall a member on the board ever picking on a film in the collection because it's a director's "most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed." (Time to toss out Seven Samurai, Grand Illusion, Playtime, L'Avventura, 8 1/2 etc.)

And I for one adore Antonioni.

[Michael]

And I for one adore Antonioni.

Molto bene! We need to hop over to the Antonioni thread and discuss what it is about Antonioni that you adore.

[FerdinandGriffon]

I feel as if Contempt gets picked on a lot here because it's Godard's most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed. And, as Godard's Antonioni film, it also gets a lot of the same negative reactions that the Italian does.

You write this as though none of the reasons could possibly have anything to do with the film itself. If you read the posts you'll see none of these reasons you propose have anything to do with the disdain for the film above.

I can't recall a member on the board ever picking on a film in the collection because it's a director's "most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed." (Time to toss out Seven Samurai, Grand Illusion, Playtime, L'Avventura, 8 1/2 etc.)

And I for one adore Antonioni.

HerrSchreck, please, I feel as if everytime I open my mouth you're ready to pounce on me without even hearing me out. I think you misunderstood me, I was just saying that one of the reasons more people are criticizing Contempt rather than other Godard films is because it's the one that most of them have seen. It doesn't mean that any of their particular criticisms aren't valid. And Godard is a controversial director in a way that Kurosawa, Renoir, and Tati are not. As we've seen on this board his detractors are just as vehement as his devotees.

And the comparison with Antonioni was there to point out that Godard was heavily influenced by the Italian when he shot Contempt, and that as such it receives a lot of the same flak as an Antonioni film. Personally, I too adore Antonioni, he's my second favorite director after Godard.

[swo17]

Do you really feel that Contempt is more high profile than Breathless? I can see your point though that, given Contempt's reputation, more people are likely to see it that might not normally watch Godard, or that are watching it more out of a deference to the canon than as a loving exploration of his films. However, this is not the same thing as when, say, certain people who have no business watching a Coen brothers film flocked to No Country after its Oscar win and deemed it overrated. I think Schreck has legitimate reasons (even if I don't entirely agree with them) for disliking Contempt, and Godard in general, and I don't think any of them have to do with the cult surrounding the films.

[HerrSchreck]

HerrSchreck, please, I feel as if everytime I open my mouth you're ready to pounce on me without even hearing me out..

Wut ?? You've put up 21 posts on the board, I've put up four or five in this thread in correspondence to you.

If you're not willing to have discussions about film, why show up? I can't see how I was rude, and I promise you I'm not following you around or carrying your image around with me.

I think you misunderstood me, I was just saying that one of the reasons more people are criticizing Contempt rather than other Godard films is because it's the one that most of them have seen.

Didn't I acknowledge that when I said

I can't recall a member on the board ever picking on a film in the collection because it's a director's "most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed."

I acknowledged that this was your point, and I responded. (I just don't agree.)

(and if you read the Contempt thread, you'll see that my history on this subject is nailed to the film itself, and goes back before your time.)

[Noiretirc]

....and that as such it receives a lot of the same flak as an Antonioni film.

We must expand on this "flak" at the Antonioni thread. Please.

[Noiretirc]

And then, (at the risk of inviting dotcomisms, or much worse, Skuj-before-Playtime-isms), my big parcel came. (And so did I.) Said parcel contains: (Forgive my mixing French and English. I chose what I deemed to be the most utilized title by English Speaking People.)

A Woman Is A Woman
Contempt
Band Of Outsiders
Alphaville
Pierrot Le Fou
Masculin Feminin
La Chinoise
Le Gai Savoir
Passion
Prenom:Carmen
Detective
Oh Woe Is Me
Eloge De L'Amour

I'm devoting my 2009 Film Experience/Study mostly to this lucky 13/For Ever Godard. Would any Criorgians recommend a logical viewing order for these? I'm tempted to be Cageian: "Honey, pick a number between 1 and 13 please, then go to bed......".

[domino harvey]

I try to always watch films in chronological order if I can, but when I was first getting into Godard I took what I could get my hands on. I believe this is the order I saw your thirteen films in, first first:

A Woman Is A Woman
Band Of Outsiders
Masculin Feminin
Alphaville
Contempt
Passion
Pierrot Le Fou
Detective
Prenom:Carmen
Eloge De L'Amour
La Chinoise
Le Gai Savoir
Oh Woe Is Me

As to whether this is a better order than just straight chronological, it probably isn't

[Noiretirc]

Did that non-chronological order disorient, Domino?

My first Godard was Breathless, and my second was Notre Musique. I was subsequently quite surprised when I recalled the oft-stated so called vast differences between early Godard and late Godard, because I saw more similarities than differences in those two films, even though, obviously, they are worlds apart in years and surface texture.

[FerdinandGriffon]

I think you misunderstood me, I was just saying that one of the reasons more people are criticizing Contempt rather than other Godard films is because it's the one that most of them have seen.

Didn't I acknowledge that when I said

I can't recall a member on the board ever picking on a film in the collection because it's a director's "most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed."

I acknowledged that this was your point, and I responded. (I just don't agree.)

You're still not understanding what I'm saying though. I never said that an individual poster has ever picked on a film in the collection because it's a director's "most high profile film in the Criterion Collection, and thus the most viewed." That quote was taken out of context. What I said was that the chances of Contempt, a famous and fairly widely viewed film, being criticized, were greater than those of a more obscure film. Nouvelle Vague is, IMO, a lesser Godard film in comparison to Contempt. But because it's not a double disc set in the Collection, or available on any other label in the US for that matter, and not as famous, less people have seen it. The fewer people that have seen it, the fewer people there are around to criticize it. Which may explain why Ando was railing against Contempt and not Nouvelle Vague. I was only responding to the surprise expressed on the board at everyone picking on Contempt, and not other Godard films. At no point did I try to move the criticism of the film away from the film itself, I was just trying to explain why that film in particular was being criticized, rather than other Godard films. Surely you don't think that Contempt is the only dud in Godard's oeuvre, Herr?

As for the request for Antonioni "flak", as a devoted fan, I don't think I have it in me. Rest assured though, Antonioni, like any director, has his detractors.

[Noiretirc]

I think you guys are having a heated agreement.

I'd love to hear Criorgian recollections of First Experiences With Godard. Breathless blew me away. Here was an entirely new language of film for me. It was so natural and real, yet tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek, in the age of Leave It To Beaver, no less! Everything I ever imagined about 1959 And All That was shattered with Breathless.

[domino harvey]

Did that non-chronological order disorient, Domino?

Not really, though if I could have chosen I would have opted to see everything in order. But up until quite recently many Godard films were something you had to hunt for, so when I first got into Godard, I took what I could get when and where I could get it.

[Michael]

Now emerging from the two-week-long JLG mode, having read countless articles and a few books including the new Brody book (anyone want the book?), I remain unconvinced by the greatest of JLG. I still don't get him. I thought I did. Breathless is a fantastic film, super cool and all but if stepping back and looking at the year of 1960, Psycho, L'avventura, La Dolce Vita, and Rocco and His Brothers were also released the same year as Breathless - what a year for cinema!, for me all those films mentioned are very original, influential and groundbreaking in their own ways. Breathless' fame as being a revolutionary film no longer a big deal to me. Now I have this sudden urge to wipe the dust off the magnificent Italian disc of La Dolce Vita and give it a spin through the holidays and I don't know why but I have this feeling that this will wipe my mind of JLG easily.

[Noiretirc]

Yes, I want the book!

It's an interesting exercise to compare and contrast the very last few seconds of La Dolce Vita and Breathless. I adore both of these films. I have yet to see the greatest of JLG, and maybe I won't get him always, but 2009 is going to be a hell of a ride!

[Michael]

Yes, I want the book!

Sorry it's already gone.

[HerrSchreck]

I was only responding to the surprise expressed on the board at everyone picking on Contempt, and not other Godard films.

But the surprise, which you were responding to (mind you, I really dislike talking about a conversation rather than having one), that folks were "picking on Contempt", came specifically qualified by the phenomena (i e in Mr_sausage's case, who I assume you're referencing) of its defender saying "It's the only Godard film I feel anything more than ambivilance for (indeed, I adore it).."

In it's detractors eyes (i e Michael), he laid out a list of other Godard films along with it which he had seen and indeed liked. So if it's defender has said of all the JLG he's seen Contempt is the only film he has any positive feelings for, and it's detractor likes most of the other Godard he's seen (I'm leaving myself out of this, since I dislike virtually all of Godard--excepting Breathless-- up to Notre Musique, which is the last film of his I've seen), I can't see how you could say what you did about the forum, after what's just immediately preceeded it.

I understand what you're saying: you're saying something along the lines of the following: there's a Soho restaurant called "Je Loco Gourmand" with a very strange chef. All the papers say 'ya gotta try their "boeuf putréfié de la dents cassées"', so that's what everyone goes there and tries.. and criticizes. Since they never taste anything else, this is the dish that gets trashed the most. (Of course I'm being silly with the name of the dish). I understand that.

My problem was twofold... first, your pronouncement was in direct response to the conversation in the forum, which was among people (on both sides of the discussion) beyond the canonical naivete you describe in your assessment. Second, it has little conversational utility since it avoids engaging the substantive critique of the film which you are (in reality) responding to.

[Mr Sausage]

So if it's defender has said of all the JLG he's seen Contempt is the only film he has any positive feelings for

Well I never said that. I have positive feelings for many of the Godard films I've seen, but I don't love them. By ambivalence I mean that I cannot commit fully to either loving or hating them, but am somewhere within the foggy bounds of disinterested appreciation. Contempt is of course the glittering exception.

[Noiretirc]

Yes, I want the book!

Sorry it's already gone.

DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!

But seriously though, your postings had me thinking all day about the very endings of Breathless and La Dolce Vita. Lovely ladies observing and saying goodbye to pathetic losers.

I admire Godard's penchant for 90-ish minute explorations. (Histoires and a few others notwithstanding.) Others can document epic and plotless 3 hour meaningless meanderings over 7 days and 7 nights of debauchery all inevitably leading towards beached sea monsters and environmental noise interference oh the symbolism! (Half kidding. I love La Dolce Vita to death.) But I love Godard's much less than The Ten Commandments approach even more. I haven't been beaten over the head by him. Yet.

[FerdinandGriffon]

If you look at MoC's website right now you'll see that, in addition to Antonioni's Il Grido, they'll be releasing Jean-Luc Godard's Une Femme Mariee this coming may. You can see the cover art here

Now the race is on to see whether Criterion or MoC will release the Dziga Vertov group boxset first.

Indie-afro-prep band Vampire Weekend have been getting a lot of attention for looking like they stepped straight out of a Wes Anderson movie, some of it good, some of it bad. A quick look at their music videos reveals that at least they know where Anderson got his aesthetic from.

Mansard Roof

Oxford Comma

[thirtyframesasecond]

At least their name lends itself to a nod to Weekend. One of the more obvious Godard pastiches in music videos was by Idlewild, and their video to 'Love Steals Us From Loneliness'.