BFI (British Film Institute)

[kekid]

I don't have the disc myself, and neither do I have a region-modified Blu-ray player, so I can't confirm any of this at first hand. But I'll make sure the technical supervisor is aware of the problem.

The only other incident I'm aware of where a BFI Blu-ray caused problems with some players was The Other Side of the Underneath and American PS3s - which was cured by a firmware upgrade to version 3.0. Is your player completely up to date, or does the fact that it's had a hardware modification mean that you can no longer upgrade the firmware? (This is all just speculation on my part, of course, but these are the questions I'd be asking first).

As for the boycott comment - well, of course! If you make a great sweeping statement about how you're never going to buy a BFI disc ever again because of its (alleged) customer-hating policy, and then quietly confess that you have in fact bought at least one, this is practically begging to be highlighted.

Not least because I'm curious as to what changed your mind. Was it the realisation that because a majority of BFI Blu-rays are now region-free (unlike the entirely region-locked Criterion catalogue), they clearly are as "customer-friendly" as their contractual agreements with rightsholders permit, or MoC's admission that they've had to region-lock one of their discs, thus completely undermining your original argument?

My firmware is upgraded to the latest version. The all-region modification does not affect firware upgrade. You will also note that in the "International DVD" "All-Region DVD/BluRay Player" section a number of forum members have confirmed experiencing the same problem.

As to your comment about my "boycott" statement....I learned from President Bush that consistency is not necessarily a virtue if the environment changes. My comment was made when the bfi was producing (Blu Ray) product that I could not use. Since then the environment has made it possible for me to access it. I still believe that region-encoding is a is a mis-guided strategy, but I cannot change the powers who make these decisions. Hence once the environment gave me the option to work around it, I took it.
I do appreciate that the bfi has produced many region-free Blu Rays since then.

[Ben Cheshire]

edit: ignore this post. I've just figued out that my TV does not display 24fps unless I use a "Cinema Smooth" option. I'm pretty devastated. ALl issues I saw with the disc, were actually ones that have permeated all my viewing on this TV, just to differing degrees. Needs calibration. Looks a lot better already now, thanks internet!

Michael, I am yet to receive my Leopard Blu but I assume what Cheshire is talking about is not frame judder from the print (it doesn't occur on the SD versions and I have BOTH) but 60/50 hz being converted to 24fps/72 or 96 hz in the player No? Is Cheshire's player doing 24 fps and does his display recognize 24fps? Who knows!! He also seems to be talking about - again Im not sure - a "waxy" surface - I presume he means clayface etc from excessive DNR, but I cant see how the telecine producer would have allowed thisl The existing SD master already has plenty of grain. Anyway I wait and see.

My setup: 50" plasma, Aussie ps3 (set to auto in terms of 50Hz/24Hz) There's nothing as bad as clayface in the transfer. Detail is really good; so you're right, it might just be some kind of fps conversion error... If that turns out to be the case, i'll have to go back and heavily edit my earlier post for its suggesting this had anything to do with DNR.

Anyway, if the disc is 24Hz, then that shouldn't be the prob, as TV/player display that fine all the time...

edit: I've just found this credit in the "About the transfer" page of the booklet: Phoenix/HD-DVNR picture restoration by so and so.

edit: Watching the blu again now; what I'm noticing definitely does not appear in all sequences. The sequences it does appear in may be ones where a crane (3m23s) or a fastpanning/trackingeg at 9m53) steadicam movement or tracking shotpan is employed... So it easily could be the actual camera that is being moved a bit jerkily! It also occurs when an actor (out of focus) moves through frame in foreground, while the family sit praying in background (in focus) (at 10m10s)

[HerrSchreck]

Anyhow, thank goodness so many of those turds from FWMS/Transit are committed to by your comrades across the pond, for theatrical as well as home vid (and for so so many titles), otherwise they'd likely be arriving in R2 in lesser restorative shape, if at all.

I was about to respond to your initial comment, but Nick pretty much said what I had to say.

And yet: I don't understand why your tone is so histrionic. "thank goodness so many of those turds from FWMS/Transit..."? — come again? How are we even supposed to respond to this? There's nothing Nick wrote that suggested he was referring to the films/properties themselves as "turds" — if we thought they were anything less than great, we wouldn't pursue the licenses. But with the aid of your irrepressible sarcasm, you've taken a remark about the presentation of a particular release, and conflated it with a hypothetical about the films themselves, and done so on a public forum..

Brother, I have no idea how you've taken my echoing of Nick's remark about the DVD releases into a qualitative assessment about the substance of the films themselves-- tell me how you made that leap. Nick said he's not afraid to call a turd a turd-- fair enough. I simply said, be grateful for those turds, because if Kino didn't crank them out by the dozen, and commit a touch more to volume than merely releasing at a snails pace the tiniest sliver of obvious classics per year, the available menu for you at Transit would no doubt look different.

The lack of any real substantive difference in translation winning anyone over on the Lubitsch thread reveals the hubris in the comments I pointed out. Guys-- Nick & Craig-- you are two dynamite gentlemen, and I love and support what you do. You know that beyond all shoadow of a doubt. There's no histrionics, and there's no ill-will. I'm simply expressing an opinion in between the usual praise: there is no rulebook for cool and uncool, and your free to disagree as you have... but certain kinds of praise and direct comparison sound better coming from other's mouths. You work and its high quality seems to speaks loudly enough on its own.

Maybe I'm wrong, and tight times make this inevitable. But I'd hate to see R1 labels coming on here dogging R2 releases to win some extra sales.

[MichaelB]

I find the whole dilly of dvd label personnel having at one another way uncool. Yesterday I put up but took back down for desire NOT to spark a shitstorm of defensive european voices a comment registering my distaste with craig's sniping at Kino's Lubitsch In Berlin release, praising the quality of the release vs Kinos. I think it's absolutely fabulous that you guys are very slow and meticulous with the quality of your limited output and try to go the extra mile via the extra amount of focus on such a small line... but I think "Subtitles are better than Kino's" or "Transfer is superior to this or that label" are comments appropriate to customers and reviewers, not label personnel/producers.

I've been offline for the past 48 hours (necessary sacrifice: insanely busy), but I broadly agree with this as a general principle. Which is why I can't stress enough that I am NOT, and never have been, "having at" MoC - my reaction was purely one of annoyance that third parties were using MoC as a club with which to beat the BFI. And I don't even have a problem with that if it's evidence-backed, but these examples were largely based on wishful thinking.

Not that this position especially needs defending, as Nick knows that there are few more fervent public champions of MoC than myself - I've reviewed the vast majority of their recent releases for Sight & Sound, sometimes at length, and my nitpicks can honestly be counted on the fingers of one hand (burned-in Japanese subtitles on Silence, that kind of thing).

Mind you, there's hardly any overlap between MoC and BFI releases - from my perspective it gets trickier when comparing releases in other countries, because I'm employed far more as a critic than I am as a DVD producer (I contribute to quite a few current and recent releases, but I haven't overseen one since 2007), so I'm pretty much expected to draw comparisons and find fault.

That said, because I know a lot of the people who actually make the discs, I do tend to bend over backwards to make sure that what I write is fact-based and independently checkable. Though this cuts both ways - because it's not exactly a secret that I'm good friends with several people at DVD labels (notably Second Run), this means that I'm actually more likely to highlight faults in my reviews, if only out of a need to stress my independence!

Incidentally, I can't comment on the questions surrounding The Leopard because I don't have the disc myself, or indeed a US-manufactured multiregion player on which to try to duplicate these issues - but if the mods move the relevant posts to the dedicated Leopard thread, I'll make sure they're read by the right people.

[MichaelB]

Michael, I am yet to receive my Leopard Blu but I assume what Cheshire is talking about is not frame judder from the print (it doesn't occur on the SD versions and I have BOTH) but 60/50 hz being converted to 24fps/72 or 96 hz in the player No? Is Cheshire's player doing 24 fps and does his display recognize 24fps? Who knows!! He also seems to be talking about - again Im not sure - a "waxy" surface - I presume he means clayface etc from excessive DNR, but I cant see how the telecine producer would have allowed thisl The existing SD master already has plenty of grain. Anyway I wait and see.

I would be absolutely astounded if DNR was the issue. I know the technical supervisor of this release well, and his attitude towards DNR is pretty much the same as everyone else's here - it's very very occasionally necessary, but the BFI would never use it just to smooth out grain. As he put it in a recent email, "grain is good!" - he actively likes trying to reproduce the original grain structure, because he knows it gives the end product a much more filmlike feel.

In any case, given the number of 16mm and even 8mm-sourced BFI Blu-ray transfers, if he was even slightly inclined towards overuse of DNR, he's definitely in the wrong job!

[What A Disgrace]

Michael, I have an asinine question, and it won't leave me alone.

As BFI has a good (apparently) relation with Fox, what are the chances of licensing the Will Hay film Where's That Fire? I believe its the only film of his which is unreleased, and that its considered one of his best. I ask because the BFI have certainly licensed more esoteric fare from Fox.

[Jonathan S]

I too would love to have a DVD of Where's That Fire? to replace my early 1980s BBC recording. I'm not sure whether really good elements survive - it was believed a lost film until the 1975 BBC transmission - but I don't think that would matter too much in this case. There are lots of Will Hay fans and it could well be a commercial success for the BFI or anyone who cared to release it, providing the license fee was reasonable.

As far as I know, there's still no DVD of Those Were the Days - Hay's first and perhaps least typical film - but it's one of the most atmospheric recreations of English music hall, containing probably the only surviving film appearance of Harry Bedford, singing "A Little Bit Off the Top". And (besides a couple of minor films) we still need the complete version of Hay's wartime comedy The Goose Steps Out.

By the way, I really think the BFI should do a DVD set devoted to British music hall. There's lots of great sound footage (mostly contained in shorts) from the 1930s, when many of the original singers from Victorian and Edwardian days revived their acts. A good friend of mine, possibly the foremost expert on British music hall, did approach the BFI some years ago about this but he said they weren't interested. Might the BFI be more receptive now?

[tajmahal]

Has there been any talk of releasing any Tomu Uchida, following the retrospective a few years ago? I imagine his films would be ripe for rediscovery. A really fine director, who deserves some attention.

Just whack some subs on the French releases, throw them together in a reasonably-priced boxset, and watch them fly out the door. (Well, one copy to Australia, but I'll tell everyone I know)

[MichaelB]

MovieMail is holding a big BFI sale.

[perkizitore]

Play.com is selling many BFI titles for 8£ each too and the Svankmajer set is 14£.

[Peacock]

Michael - what's the deal with Killer of Sheep?
It's not been 'in stock' anywhere in months?

[MichaelB]

Still in print as far as I'm aware.

[perkizitore]

Are there any plans for any non-Flipside, non-Ozu blu-rays for the rest of 2010?

[denti alligator]

There's Institute Benjamenta, which should be coming in May.

[MichaelB]

And The Innocents.

Plus more that I can't reveal just yet.

[perkizitore]

I am already aware of the announced titles, i am glad though there are more coming. Thanks Michael!

[antnield]

...and Bodysong don't forget. Also due in March.

[peerpee]

I've been waiting for the German restoration of POTEMKIN for 2 years

[RobertB]

Michael - what's the deal with Killer of Sheep?
It's not been 'in stock' anywhere in months?

I bought mine last week. Received this Friday. Got it from Findprice through amazon uk marketplace. It arrived with plastic wrapping as it should. So they have them brand new.

[bigP]

MichaelB, I was wondering if you happen to know anything about HMV's pre-order of Bodysong LTD? As ever, HMV are being elusive with the details, and I already have a copy of the film, but may gladly empty my wallet based upon what this may be. I'm guessing a bonus CD of Johnny Greenwood's score (which would be great)?

[Cash Flagg]

Is a Bodysong BD still in the works?

[MichaelB]

Is a Bodysong BD still in the works?

As far as I'm aware, yes - though I'm not 100% sure about the release date.

[colinr0380]

A couple more DVD Beaver reviews for BFI discs currently without dedicated threads, More and Radio On

[MichaelB]

A couple more DVD Beaver reviews for BFI discs currently without dedicated threads, More and Radio On

Thanks for that, Colin - and for general reference, this is definitely the right thread for flagging up stuff like this that doesn't have a dedicated thread. I don't think there's much point starting those up for elderly releases unless there's a really pressing reason over and above a belated Beaver review.

[DanV]

Wrong thread.