Criterion and Dual Format

[alvareo]

They obviously have 2disc releases covered, but what about 3 (like Tokyo Story)?

They'll probably use the ones Scanavo (the company that makes Criterion's cases) manufactures

[Yaanu]

They obviously have 2disc releases covered, but what about 3 (like Tokyo Story)?

They'll probably use the ones Scanavo (the company that makes Criterion's cases) manufactures

That depends on if they've managed to make three-disc custom Criterion BD cases. I wouldn't be too surprised if the 3D artwork for Tokyo Story shows that it's a digipak.

[swo17]

I hope for 3 discs they do something like this, only not colored in blue, and without the Blu-ray banner space at the top. (This would be somewhat similar to BFI releases like the Bill Douglas trilogy, only again without the banner space at the top.) I like having a solid wall of plastic on the back, as it supports the cover sleeve more. Children of Paradise, Heaven's Gate, etc. feel a little flimsy in this respect.

And an exciting prospect I just considered: Dual formats would seem to open up the doorway to hybrid Eclipse-type releases that present some films in SD and others in HD where the source materials allow it. This would have been an ideal way to treat the Czech New Wave Eclipse set, for example.

[Rupert Pupkin]

my concern is about the shipping and disk arriving undamaged; I've always liked the jewel case for the single Blu-Ray edition.
I - of course - enjoy when they release a digipack such as for Breathless, On The Waterfront, or Repo man;
but the jewel case with a double-8 (like "Heaven's Gate") are really stressful for me : often a disk is decliped. And guess, which was is it ? (the Blu-Ray for the main feature ) I have to take whisky and/or with xanax (1 pill per disk so imagine if this is a box set... ... 911) in order to not shake while "declipicking" the disks...
really a painfull experience... but that's what they call progress...
guess I'm anal and/or a vieux con reactionnaire...

[Minkin]

It seems the vitriol against the dual format decision is quite stronger than I had imagined (I thought it was going to be universally praised). I can only understand someone being upset if they pull a Kevyip and are worried about the "environmental damage of unused material," but the only argument seems to revolve around space issues. The space problem doesn't make sense, especially since the vast majority of titles will be like this. The rest will either be digipacks or a yet-to-be-invented 3 disc Criterion Amaray. Those so overburden by space issues should just use folders instead (Anthony, you're going to need more space anyway if you plan to keep buying movies). Sure, the Zatoichi set has 18 additional discs, but they're in a book, thus they aren't going to be taking up all that much extra space anyway, its not like Criterion added cones on each side with DVDs sticking out. Its a beautiful package anyway, so why not display it proudly? Or does it take away space
from your allotted 'Walking Dead Zombie heads with screwdrivers in the eye' shelf?

Its just absurd to see comments like these:

Hey Criterion, are you going to include these on VHS too, maybe video cd, or LD? Afterall, there are still more households with vcrs than BD players and probably more vcrs than dvd still. Guess I'll have to make my own case and artwork for Zatoichi - assuming it's not too price prohibitive to get the set. No way am I clearing out shelf space for a box of 18 redundantly useless dvds. Definitely won't be in a hurry to buy because of it either. But, I'll give you credit, at least they aren't BD/dvd flippers.

Its as though DVDs killed their parents. I don't get it. Can these people seriously not think of a use for them? Libraries or friends (assuming they have any) or parents or siblings? I can think of a ton of different great uses for them. Most local college libraries are always desperate for discs, so they're a noble cause.

What's not to love? You get a $30 disc for free! Anyone who has ever bought both the separate blu and DVD for something will be overjoyed by this change. At the very least, you can make a Criterion gift basket with your extra discs.

[ola t]

The next time we see an upgrade that's not a redo like Tokyo Story, do you think they'll just throw in the old dvd?

Seems likely -- Paul Schrader said recently that Criterion won't release Mishima on blu-ray until the DVD has sold out "because it changes the packaging". I didn't think that made too much sense, but with hindsight, surely it means they're making it a dual-format release when that time comes?

[movielocke]

So 4.5 to 5 hrs per disc on the zatoichi blurays? Is that pushing it? Id have rather had 13 of each and an extra dvdd for the doc instead of 11 dvds with a single feature.

[matrixschmatrix]

Looking at the lengths, there aren't any sets of three that would go over 4.5 hours until the seventh disc, or whichever includes Zatoichi vs. Yojimbo, which is the only one in the whole series that goes much over 95 minutes- most of them are barely over 80. Which means that I'm guessing that one's going to be one that only has two on the disc.

[HistoryProf]

I don't mind the price, but I still only buy DVD's and the one thing I'm worried about is keeping my collection looking uniform. I guess I could always buy empty DVD boxes and put in the Blu-Ray sleeve? Wouldn't exactly look great, but the size of the boxes would be the same at least.

or you could join the 21st century and buy a $80 blu ray player!

[Jonathan S]

How ironic Criterion should make this decision in the same year MoC abandons Dual Format!

As someone who is Region B-locked for Blu-ray, and had decided to remain that way (especially after the disappointment of Madame de...), I'm not sure how it will affect me. I don't buy many Criterions these days anyway, but it might push me into going region-free, or it might deter me from buying the few DVD only releases I would have bought. I'm sure I could more than get back the extra outlay (probably only $5 if bought in sales) by selling the unusable blu-rays but there's also the problem of the low UK import limit, especially now B&N are no longer "customs-friendly". It will certainly mean waiting for half-price sales then buying just one at a time (or gambling on not being hit).

The new policy will create an interesting situation if there are more cases like Madame de where the re-issue is perceived (by some) to be inferior to the original DVD. Until now, the first release could be easily bought or re-bought once the bad news emerges, but that might no longer be the case if it's been deleted in favour of the re-issue. I'm assuming that with re-issues (such as Tokyo Story) it will be the new transfer on both formats.

[HistoryProf]

Considering the Cassavetes set featuring just over half the disc amount is $124.95 assuming that four additional Blus would add another hundred to that is not unreasonable.

Although the BBS box which has six BDs is also $124.95, so it's more like three additional Blus for $100, if we're making comparisons.

I would hazard a guess that it would be either $174.95 or $199.95 - probably the latter considering the number of films. The cost of adding DVDs is quite negligible, and while I'll never probably watch them, it doesn't bother me at all to have them as they'll be nice loaners. That is one of the best parts about this development in my opinion. I never have to loan out a blu ray and worry about getting it back timely and in the condition it was in when I handed it over. The DVDs can serve as loaners, and also give me flexibility for showing things in the classroom.

It's great!

[HistoryProf]

I HATE dual format releases. Great, so now I get a free coaster with every BD release I buy starting in Nov. I hope they reconsider this horrible idea.

If the price is the same, what difference does it make? I have plenty of blu rays with worthless "digital copy" discs on one side of the case....and it has not affected my standard of enjoyment one iota because I am capable of ignoring said worthless disc and simply removing the BD and watching that and then returning it to it's case and then the case to the shelf.

In other words, how on earth could this in any way inspire HATE? There is literally no impact on the consumer, other than knowing there is an extra disc inside a case. why do you care?

[HistoryProf]

I will never understand why people whine about included DVDs and/or digital copies with Blu-rays that'd cost the same anyway. This Anthony fellow is one entitled shit, to actually complain that there's an extra disc in his case. Boo fucking hoo

he's definitely securing a host of Richard Cranium votes with this nonsense. Good lord.

The cases won't be larger. They'll have two discs in them instead of one. They've managed that quite fine for years now.

[MichaelB]

I can't imagine I'm alone in having half a dozen friends who enjoy it when I bring a film over to watch and are without blu ray players. No longer will a large portion of my collection need to be watched at my house.

And the fact that I can now watch the DVD on my laptop in bed (or rip stuff to my iPad) means that I'm far more likely to watch the extras than before. But I've always been a big fan of dual-format releases - for me, it's a perfect blend of quality and convenience.

[ShellOilJunior]

Don't most non-Apple laptops come with BR drives with at least read capability? I guess I'm spoiled with read-write BR.

[MichaelB]

Don't most non-Apple laptops come with BR drives with at least read capability? I guess I'm spoiled with read-write BR.

I've no idea - I'm very happy with the laptop I have, and I'm not about to buy another one just to watch BDs on a tiny screen.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

I can't imagine I'm alone in having half a dozen friends who enjoy it when I bring a film over to watch and are without blu ray players. No longer will a large portion of my collection need to be watched at my house.

And the fact that I can now watch the DVD on my laptop in bed (or rip stuff to my iPad) means that I'm far more likely to watch the extras than before. But I've always been a big fan of dual-format releases - for me, it's a perfect blend of quality and convenience.

Have we had a policy statement from MoC why they seem to have abandoned Dual format?

[felipe]

In other words, how on earth could this in any way inspire HATE? There is literally no impact on the consumer, other than knowing there is an extra disc inside a case. why do you care?

There will be an impact on DVD buyers, who will now have to pay more for every Criterion release.

[Harmonov]

As someone who just recently went Blu, but whose only Blu-Ray player is in my bedroom where my wife goes to bed at 9:45 (and where my only HDTV is), I really appreciate the dual format release because now I can watch the SD disc on my TV in the basement and when I eventually upgrade the TV and player downstairs, I will have the Blu to use. I'm very excited about this development. ecstatic, in fact. I had bought films like The Tree of Life that before that only came in dual format editions and I am now thankful for that. I understand that the $10 price difference may rub some people the wrong way, but if anyone is still paying full retail price for any of these releases, they should be kicked in the neck with golf spikes. The fact is that between Best Buy, Amazon, B&N sales and plenty of other retailers, Criterion releases, even during pre-order times and upon release, are regularly 30-40% off. Spend the extra $25 to get the B&N membership and you get the releases for even cheaper especially when you factor in the 15-20% coupons that they send out during the sales. If you love the films as much as you let on, you'll find a way to get them cheaper. And if you can't, then please take your moaning elsewhere. Shit isn't that hard to figure out.

[matrixschmatrix]

How ironic Criterion should make this decision in the same year MoC abandons Dual Format!

As someone who is Region B-locked for Blu-ray, and had decided to remain that way (especially after the disappointment of Madame de...), I'm not sure how it will affect me. I don't buy many Criterions these days anyway, but it might push me into going region-free, or it might deter me from buying the few DVD only releases I would have bought. I'm sure I could more than get back the extra outlay (probably only $5 if bought in sales) by selling the unusable blu-rays but there's also the problem of the low UK import limit, especially now B&N are no longer "customs-friendly". It will certainly mean waiting for half-price sales then buying just one at a time (or gambling on not being hit).

The new policy will create an interesting situation if there are more cases like Madame de where the re-issue is perceived (by some) to be inferior to the original DVD. Until now, the first release could be easily bought or re-bought once the bad news emerges, but that might no longer be the case if it's been deleted in favour of the re-issue. I'm assuming that with re-issues (such as Tokyo Story) it will be the new transfer on both formats.

If you want just the DVDs from a dual release, I and probably several other board members would be happy to work something out to split one- and that would get you around the customs rules, too. You needn't necessarily buy the whole set and sell the blu yourself.

[Jonathan S]

Thanks - that's certainly worth considering, though in cases where I wanted the booklet I'd probably prefer to buy the release myself and just sell the Blu loose.

[hearthesilence]

Isn't Criterion on iTunes now? That could be another solution, buying an HD download (albeit probably 720p, not 1080p). You may need someone to purchase it in the States and get you the file somehow - if you have a friend here you trust, you may need to set up an account they can access.

[Feego]

In other words, how on earth could this in any way inspire HATE? There is literally no impact on the consumer, other than knowing there is an extra disc inside a case. why do you care?

There will be an impact on DVD buyers, who will now have to pay more for every Criterion release.

And in a few years when their DVD player goes kaput and they replace it with a brand-spanking new Blu-ray player, they can thank Criterion that they already have a nice Blu-ray collection.

[MichaelB]

And in a few years when their DVD player goes kaput and they replace it with a brand-spanking new Blu-ray player, they can thank Criterion that they already have a nice Blu-ray collection.

...which was the BFI's rationale for going dual-format, way back in 2010.

[bainbridgezu]

And an exciting prospect I just considered: Dual formats would seem to open up the doorway to hybrid Eclipse-type releases that present some films in SD and others in HD where the source materials allow it. This would have been an ideal way to treat the Czech New Wave Eclipse set, for example.

I really hope this is something they explore. Daisies was a missed opportunity, but we may still get Valerie and The Cremator on blu-ray.

I'm also somewhat less anxious about the future of their remaining Fassbinder and Oshima titles.