Criterion and Dual Format

[Brian C]

My B&N has already had a single Criterion section for years, is that uncommon?

Mine has separate Blu and DVD sections, and so does the other one that I sometimes go to.

[Minkin]

Yes, but they no longer have to guess at what might sell more, Blu or DVD, and retailers like B&N can eventually condense to just one "Criterion" area rather than separate areas for each format.

My B&N has already had a single Criterion section for years, is that uncommon?

Only 1 out of the 4 BNs nearby have both Criterion DVDs/Blus together. Never made much sense to separate the two, since they've already run out of space for everything, and have already combined Tv on bluray and DVD/blus in the "Miramax section" . Granted, my local BN still thinks Salo on Blu is a new release, and proudly displays it on the new release shelf for the rest of eternity.

[Grisbi]

I think the dual format with especially something like the Zatoichi box presents some real interesting opportunities in terms of utilizing the aftermarket; while the more anal high-def collectors will likely not want to break the box up despite not having any use for the DVD's, it seems to me that for someone who would be satisfied simply with the packaging and the complete blu-ray set, selling the DVD's off for somewhere in the neighborhood of a few bucks each (which seems reasonable for something like this) would act basically as a hefty rebate, and if you wind up getting it for the half price during the B&N sale then you're talking about at the end of the day not being out all that much dough at all.

The samurai genre is one I would really like to explore further, and the Zatoichi set from all accounts would be a good way to do that, but seeing as how it would essentially be a speculative purchase for me, any way of mitigating the hefty (but more than fair) price would be nice, and this seems like it would be an excellent way to do that.

[dang]

This is so wrong! I'll never, ever, buy a dual format release. It's totally unjustifiable and inexcusable from an environmental perspective.

"CDs and DVDs are made from materials including polycarbonate plastic, petroleum-based lacquer and paints, aluminum and other metals. These materials release chemicals that contribute to environmental and health problems as well as global warming, both when they are produced and when they are destroyed."

"A midsized software company that ships 100,000 CDs and their associated documentation a year could eliminate several hundred metric tons of green house gas emissions by switching from physical to electronic delivery."

source: http://gigaom.com/2007/08/16/how-the-ph ... vironment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Calvin]

This is so wrong! I'll never, ever, buy a dual format release. It's totally unjustifiable and inexcusable from an environmental perspective.

But surely dual format releases are more justifiable than separate Blu and DVD releases from an environmental perspective? They don't have to produce separate packaging for the Blu and DVD editions, the discs would still be produced regardless.

[Jeff]

This is so wrong!

They were already pressing both Blu-ray and DVD versions of their films. They are now simply putting both discs in one case instead of two. It remains to be seen how many extra copies they'll need to press to serve both markets, but they are no longer having two different sizes of cases and booklets made, eliminating the larger DVD-sized ones, which used more paper and plastic.

The idea, of course, is that the remaining Criterion collectors without Blu-ray capabilities will now develop a Blu-ray library, causing them to upgrade sooner, and eliminating the need to press DVDs at all. In the meantime, I'd say that Janus/Criterion are streaming a much larger percentage of their library than any other distributor, so if "switching from physical to electronic delivery" is really important to you, they're giving you a viable option.

[dang]

But surely dual format releases are more justifiable than separate Blu and DVD releases from an environmental perspective? They don't have to produce separate packaging for the Blu and DVD editions, the discs would still be produced regardless.

So, you are assuming that everybody buys both the dvd and the blu release?

edit: added a reply to Jeff

"if "switching from physical to electronic delivery" is really important to you, they're giving you a viable option.

It is, indeed, but that's another discussion. In this case it's more of a case of "switching from no delivery at all to physical delivery of obsolete discs" when someone buys it exclusively for the blu. I mean, if I buy the Zatoichi box, Criterion will deliver 18 discs that will never, ever be played. It's a complete waste of resources and energy.

[Calvin]

So, you are assuming that everybody buys both the dvd and the blu release?

No, but I doubt Criterion made this decision because both Blu and DVD editions were selling equally well. I'm not aware of any sales figures available but I doubt that this will necessitate Criterion producing double the number of discs. Whilst I agree that it the number produced will increase, this may be offset by the cut down in packaging that Jeff outlined.

It is, indeed, but that's another discussion. In this case it's more of a case of "switching from no delivery at all to physical delivery of obsolete discs" when someone buys it exclusively for the blu. I mean, if I buy the Zatoichi box, Criterion will deliver 18 discs that will never, ever be played. It's a complete waste of resources and energy.

But, let's say Criterion produced separate editions of the Zatoichi box set. There would need to be a minimum number pressed to make it economically viable for both Criterion and the consumer. If 5000 were pressed, there may be 1000 that will never ever be sold. That is a waste. If those discs could be channelled into a single SKU and the packaging that housed them eliminated...I dont necessarily see it as being more environmentally unfriendly than the current situation. Again, I have no idea on sales figures but I would be surprised if there was no sales-based catalyst for this move.

[Bürgermeister]

"if "switching from physical to electronic delivery" is really important to you, they're giving you a viable option.

It is, indeed, but that's another discussion. In this case it's more of a case of "switching from no delivery at all to physical delivery of obsolete discs" when someone buys it exclusively for the blu. I mean, if I buy the Zatoichi box, Criterion will deliver 18 discs that will never, ever be played. It's a complete waste of resources and energy.

If you don't like it don't buy it, it really is that simple.

So, you are assuming that everybody buys both the dvd and the blu release?

No, but I doubt Criterion made this decision because both Blu and DVD editions were selling equally well. I'm not aware of any sales figures available but I doubt that this will necessitate Criterion producing double the number of discs. Whilst I agree that it the number produced will increase, this may be offset by the cut down in packaging that Jeff outlined.

No they won't. They'll produce just as many as they usually do. But put it into one package. Which means less plastic and paper used.

I bet the guy complaining about the "environment" drives a gas guzzling car.

[dang]

If you don't like it don't buy it, it really is that simple.

But it really is not, the impact of me, personally, buying it or not, is virtually none. I'd like for Criterion, and any other company, to take environmental responsibility for their products.

No they won't. They'll produce just as many as they usually do. But put it into one package. Which means less plastic and paper used.

Do you know this for a fact? I seriously doubt it.

I bet the guy complaining about the "environment" drives a gas guzzling car.

I do not, but that's completely besides the point, and totally uncalled for. Why are you throwing rocks at me?

Like others have said in this discussion, I do not know any sales figures regarding dvd vs. blu, nor do I know how this will impact their sales. But I do know that the principle of shipping obsolete entities with any product (in this case dvds when you're buying a blu-ray) is environmentally reprehensible.

[MichaelB]

But it really is not, the impact of me, personally, buying it or not, is virtually none. I'd like for Criterion, and any other company, to take environmental responsibility for their products.

Well, the solution is obvious - scrap physical media altogether and move exclusively to streaming and downloads.

Good luck selling that idea round these parts!

[dang]

Well, the solution is obvious - scrap physical media altogether and move exclusively to streaming and downloads.

Good luck selling that idea round these parts!

The good thing is, that I don't have to sell it, when it is financially sane, it will happen. Resistance is futile. The sad thing is, it won't happen until then.

[Donald Brown]

Let's quit beating around the bush. The environmental concern over physical media is a pretext; the ulterior desire is for a format that's easier to steal.

[dang]

Let's quit beating around the bush. The environmental concern over physical media is a pretext; the ulterior desire is for a format that's easier to steal.

Now, why would you think that? You don't think that the future state of our environment is worthy of any concern? You don't think that anyone really cares?

[MichaelB]

Now, why would you think that? You don't think that the future state of our environment is worthy of any concern? You don't think that anyone really cares?

As I already strongly hinted, if you really cared, you'd have abandoned physical media some time ago.

[dang]

As I already strongly hinted, if you really cared, you'd have abandoned physical media some time ago.

Who says I haven't? I have largely abandoned physical media, as much as I can bring myself to at this point. I have no sentimental connection to the physical packaging.

[domino harvey]

Can a thread be eligible for the Richard Cranium award?

[dang]

You know what, you're right. As of right now I will never, ever buy a movie on physical media ever again. Thank you for making me come to that decision.

Though, I must say that it's sad that it is so controversial to criticize a company for making environmentally unfriendly decisions, that I'm the one being put on trial, having to defend myself from accusations taken out of the blu (pun intended). My personal dedication and what obligations I feel I have towards the environment should not matter in this discussion. But why am I surprised? It's probably the most common tactic when it comes to arguments about the environment, or ethics of any kind. Anyone who dares criticize anyone for anything had better be perfect. If you have ever done anything questionable, or even worse, you still act questionably on occasion, you have forfeited your right to criticize, and if you do, you are a hypocrite.

[domino harvey]

Some of us may very well love the environment as much or more than you, but the idea that Criterion is dangerously harming the ecosystem or whatever with this move is absurd. What's next in this thread, bitching that Criterion is evil for releasing movies when they could be setting up charities for orphans instead?

[dang]

Some of us may very well love the environment as much or more than you, but the idea that Criterion is dangerously harming the ecosystem or whatever with this move is absurd. What's next in this thread, bitching that Criterion is evil for releasing movies when they could be setting up charities for orphans instead?

I'm sorry about the blazing guns. I don't think that Criterion, on their own, are "dangerously harming the ecosystem" because of this, it is mainly the nonnecessity aspect that bothers me, to ship a crapload of discs they know will never be used for anything. I understand very well that this might be the most financially viable option, and since I do not know all the facts I can acknowledge that it might at the moment (though I doubt it) be the most environmentally sane solution due to some weird, correlated parameters. But, most likely, those discs come with an environmental cost, and the principle of producing things that are meant to be waste from the very beginning angers me. There may definitely be those of you who "love the environment as much or more than me", I am far from advocating living in a hut, living off the land, but again that should not matter in this discussion.

[MichaelB]

I'm sorry about the blazing guns. I don't think that Criterion, on their own, are "dangerously harming the ecosystem" because of this, it is mainly the nonnecessity aspect that bothers me, to ship a crapload of discs they know will never be used for anything.

As opposed to having a crapload of discs sitting in a warehouse being unsold? As has already been suggested, there's every likelihood that greater efficiencies along the supply chain either balance or actively outweigh the barely measurable "environmental damage" caused by adding an extra disc to the package.

But, most likely, those discs come with an environmental cost, and the principle of producing things that are meant to be waste from the very beginning angers me.

They're not "meant to be waste" - as this thread has demonstrated on its own, many of us welcome Criterion going dual-format because having both formats is considerably more convenient for those whose Blu-ray setups are more restricted to one room (and particular viewing times) than their DVD ones. So for us those discs aren't remotely wasted - they're clearly of far greater value to me than innumerable two-disc packages that I have of films whose extras I have no interest in perusing and whose print runs are almost certainly many times bigger than Criterion's. (Or indeed two-disc sets where the second disc is useless to me because only the main feature has English subtitles.)

[vsski]

This "discussion" is going nowhere unless there is factual proof that producing dual format editions have a greater environmental cost than keeping them separate and unless someone not only knows the numbers, it also requires knowledge of which part of the process has greater environmental cost.

And has anyone calculated the environmental cost of downloads, if this is indeed the suggested alternative. Last I checked you need electricity to download anything and I doubt that all movie downloads today are being powered by wind or other renewable energy.

[dang]

As opposed to having a crapload of discs sitting in a warehouse being unsold?

As opposed to never manufacturing them in the first place.

the barely measurable "environmental damage" caused by adding an extra disc to the package.

It is very much measurable, just the manufacturing cost of a single disc is approximately 150 grams emission of carbon dioxide. In addition to that you have valuable metals that will never come to use again.

They're not "meant to be waste" - as this thread has demonstrated on its own, many of us welcome Criterion going dual-format because having both formats is considerably more convenient for those whose Blu-ray setups are more restricted to one room

I didn't say all of them are "meant to be waste", but honestly, don't you think that the vast majority of those dvds are destined to never being used?

innumerable two-disc packages that I have of films whose extras I have no interest in perusing and whose print runs are almost certainly many times bigger than Criterion's.

I agree, that is much worse, but it doesn't legitimize dual-format.

[The Narrator Returns]

It is very much measurable, just the manufacturing cost of a single disc is approximately 150 grams emission of carbon dioxide. In addition to that you have valuable metals that will never come to use again.

](*,) Why are you even on CriterionForum if you are that violently opposed to making discs of any kind? And really, the manufacturing of anything can take away "valuable materials". Do you not use pencils because they take away from the Earth's supply of wood?

And when this inevitably gets split into the Infighting section, can I get to name it? How's "Discs for some, miniature American flags for others"?

[MichaelB]

Why are you even on CriterionForum if you are that violently opposed to making discs of any kind? And really, the manufacturing of anything can take away "valuable materials". Do you not use pencils because they take away from the Earth's supply of wood?

How much carbon dioxide has been emitted as a direct by-product of the electricity generated in order to support this pretty futile argument?