261-264 Fanny and Alexander

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Napoleon · #51 Post by **Napoleon** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:17 pm

One thing I wanted to add is that to my eye, the black levels really seemed to suffer in the darkly lit scenes. This is something I haven't read about anywhere, but I found it quite distracting. I wonder if this has something to do with watching NTSC on a PAL TV. My TV supports NTSC, but it is primarily PAL. I buy most of my discs from R1, and I have noticed this on plenty before it (both PAL and NTSC), but I read nothing of it in reviews. I should also note that plenty of my R1 discs don't suffer from this on my TV.

Viewing in the same circumstances as you, I'm afraid not. Can you give a disc, chapter, and time for when this is most noticable for a quick double-check?

Theodore R. Stockton · Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:38 pm

I noticed at the beginning of the TV version (I haven't watched the theatrical) the lighting noticable changes but because of the "sources". The house is so big that some shots show windows and lights that the reversal shots don't. I remember it being slightly distracting but why you think of why there is more light it makes seance.

P.S.
Thanks to those who answered about the kidnapping scene.

dekadetia · #53 Post by **dekadetia** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:54 pm

Theodore R. Stockton wrote:I remember it being slightly distracting but why you think of why there is more light it makes seance.

It's not exactly a seance -- more like sleight of hand.

daniel p · #54 Post by **daniel p** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:18 am

N. Wilson wrote:
One thing I wanted to add is that to my eye, the black levels really seemed to suffer in the darkly lit scenes. This is something I haven't read about anywhere, but I found it quite distracting. I wonder if this has something to do with watching NTSC on a PAL TV. My TV supports NTSC, but it is primarily PAL. I buy most of my discs from R1, and I have noticed this on plenty before it (both PAL and NTSC), but I read nothing of it in reviews. I should also note that plenty of my R1 discs don't suffer from this on my TV.
Viewing in the same circumstances as you, I'm afraid not. Can you give a disc, chapter, and time for when this is most noticable for a quick double-check?

Ueah, check out chapters 8 & 9 on disc 1...the bedroom scenes - after the big dinner. To me the blacks seem off. It seems as though they reduced the blacks, as it's so dimly lit - but I found it to be distracting. there are some other instances, but those two chapters are definitly the main parts. Let me know how you go N. Wilson.

mbalson · #55 Post by **mbalson** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:13 pm

I double checked my discs and everything seemed very correct with these scenes to me.

daniel p · #56 Post by **daniel p** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:41 am

Found another bad spot...chapter 5, about 23 minutes, on disc 2. The scene where the stepfather is interrogating Alexander about the death of the woman and children. The wide shot of everyone exhibits off-blacks to me.

Also, same disc, at 31 minutes - watch for a couple of minutes, and notice alexander's hair as he bends over for the 11th caning, and as he gets back up, look at the Stepfather's jacket.

Remember, I am using a PAL based TV - an NTSC based DVD player, and this kind of fault is non-existant on such discs as Lord of the Rings (NTSC), and hundreds of others. Everybody spoke of perfect transfers for F&A, but the blacks are not perfect to me. My display is not the problem here - of my player.

If it is a disc fault, then both discs of my TV version are faulty.

Maybe these do have somthing to do with the lighting, and it's down to the cinematography, but I just hadn't read mention of it anywhere.

Napoleon · #57 Post by **Napoleon** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:31 am

I looked at chapters 8 and 9 and I cannot see what you mean. However, pausing and fiddling around with the brightness on some of the dark scenes reveals loads of hidden detail. Sorry but as far as I can see the transfer is outstanding.

daniel p · #58 Post by **daniel p** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:13 pm

Maybe I was being picky, but I certainly noticed it at times.

Apart from this, the transfers are incredible though.

A truly amazing film. Can't wait to check out the extras.[/url]

daniel p · #59 Post by **daniel p** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:33 am

daniel p · #60 Post by **daniel p** » Sun May 01, 2005 2:16 am

So did anyone look at the screencaps? Can someone tell me if I my discs are faulty?

CSM126 · #61 Post by **CSM126** » Sun May 01, 2005 9:08 am

My discs never looked like that! I think it's probably your discs.

daniel p · #62 Post by **daniel p** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:53 am

Are you serious?
How could my discs be faulty? I don't understand how this could be a fault? Can somebody else please check the screencaps with their discs.

lord_clyde · #63 Post by **lord_clyde** » Mon May 02, 2005 5:32 am

How many televisions/dvd players have you tested it on?

daniel p · #64 Post by **daniel p** » Mon May 02, 2005 7:41 am

I have used the same TV and DVD player to watch most of my 800+ DVDs. And anyway, the DVD ROM should be the most accurate of the bunch.

I understand that different compositions can have different results, but here's some more caps I took of Star Wars and Dr Strangelove (just to prove it's not my DVD ROM).
I know SW had a much more elaborate restoration, but those 2 DVDs show perfect black levels to me. Fanny & Alexander looks terrible in comparison.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/sw1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/sw2.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/sw3.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/sw4.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/sw5.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/drs1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/kobeson/drs2.jpg

I emailed JM about this - he hasn't responded yet.

mbalson · #65 Post by **mbalson** » Mon May 02, 2005 10:08 am

My discs never looked like that! I think it's probably your discs.

I think this might be more of a response to your awkward screen caps than the content of the picture frame itself. Why is the image so distorted? What's with the massive black frame?
I see what you're talking about with regard to the black levels. They are a little soft in places. Your setup doesn't seem to help though. You must have a different PowerDVD color profile loaded that makes everything super vivid. You should set everything to zero.
I have uploaded some screen caps that I took:
HERE and HERE

daniel p · #66 Post by **daniel p** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:41 pm

Thanks for adding your own caps!

Firstly, this one & this one were taken with the same colour settings as this one - only the frame sizes are different and 'awkward'.

I adjusted the colour settings to 'original', and resized the frame for this one and, yeah it looks better. I guess my settings need some work.

I never touched the settings on powerdvd before, and everything else looked fantastic until Fanny. And on my DVD player/TV, this was the first DVD with such a 'highly acclaimed' transfer that looked bad to me. Maybe my settings aren't perfect, but this still looked worse than I was expecting.

Thanks mbalson for your input - it sorted out my problem for me. But I still think the blacks are not so great. Even in your screencap it is evident, but I am nitpicking I guess.

After a few adjustments on my TV, the grainy dark scenes still look average to me, but who's really to complain - it's such a special package overall.

In Heaven · #67 Post by **In Heaven** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:46 am

does anyone know how long each individual episode is? They all seem to be different lengths.

yukiyuki · #68 Post by **yukiyuki** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 4:52 pm

well actually F&A is my number 1 movie of all time, the movie has all I want from a movie...drama, coming-of age story, mistery, things related with magic, comedy, family melodrama, and faith....

lord_clyde · #69 Post by **lord_clyde** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:21 pm

yukiyuki wrote:well actually F&A is my number 1 movie of all time, the movie has all I want from a movie...drama, coming-of age story, mistery, things related with magic, comedy, family melodrama, and faith....

Glad to hear this particularmysterious magical coming of age family melodrama/drama with comedy and religious themes resonates so much with you.
Based on that list of everything you want from a movie, what's #2?

jorencain · #70 Post by **jorencain** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:58 pm

lord_clyde wrote:
yukiyuki wrote:well actually F&A is my number 1 movie of all time, the movie has all I want from a movie...drama, coming-of age story, mistery, things related with magic, comedy, family melodrama, and faith....
Glad to hear this particularmysterious magical coming of age family melodrama/drama with comedy and religious themes resonates so much with you.
Based on that list of everything you want from a movie, what's #2?

"Michael", starring John Travolta.

yukiyuki · #71 Post by **yukiyuki** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:23 pm

lord_clyde wrote:
Glad to hear this particularmysterious magical coming of age family melodrama/drama with comedy and religious themes resonates so much with you.
Based on that list of everything you want from a movie, what's #2?

2. Tokyo Story
3. Ordet
4. 8 1/2
5. Belle de Jour

and you?

lord_clyde · #72 Post by **lord_clyde** » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:20 pm

yukiyuki wrote:
lord_clyde wrote:
Glad to hear this particularmysterious magical coming of age family melodrama/drama with comedy and religious themes resonates so much with you.
Based on that list of everything you want from a movie, what's #2?
2. Tokyo Story
3. Ordet
4. 8 1/2
5. Belle de Jour

and you?

Only seen 8 1/2, eagerly seeking out the others.

yukiyuki · #73 Post by **yukiyuki** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:04 pm

lord_clyde wrote:
yukiyuki wrote:
lord_clyde wrote:
Glad to hear this particularmysterious magical coming of age family melodrama/drama with comedy and religious themes resonates so much with you.
Based on that list of everything you want from a movie, what's #2?
2. Tokyo Story
3. Ordet
4. 8 1/2
5. Belle de Jour

and you?

Not really into coming of agae family melodrama/drama with comedy and religious themes. Except Fanny and Alexander of course. That established, #2 would have to Evil Dead.

Just curious, would those be your top 5 films period, or just the top 5 of this particular genre?

that's my top 5 films period

tasog37 · #74 Post by **tasog37** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:43 am

daniel p wrote:Well, I finally got around to watching F&A, and am only half way through the TV version (watched disc 1), and am in love with the film. I've seen a few Bergmans now, and having watched his earlier films before this one, really make it something worth waiting to see.

One thing I wanted to add is that to my eye, the black levels really seemed to suffer in the darkly lit scenes. This is something I haven't read about anywhere, but I found it quite distracting. I wonder if this has something to do with watching NTSC on a PAL TV. My TV supports NTSC, but it is primarily PAL. I buy most of my discs from R1, and I have noticed this on plenty before it (both PAL and NTSC), but I read nothing of it in reviews. I should also note that plenty of my R1 discs don't suffer from this on my TV.

Can anyone else comment on this?

Yeah!! I've noticed the same problem last night watching the first disc on my television. It looks like when you bend over to tie your shoe and you look up at a crappy monitor and the blacks all look off.

I watch all my dvds on that tv and have never experienced this problem. I was thinking about taking some of my own screenshots and sending them to JM to see what he said too.

Also, slighty more on topic I expected Fanny and Alexander to be one of the most amazing films I'd experienced and I was not let down. Ingmar Bergman has been my favorite for a few years now and I was not disappointed.

jorencain · #75 Post by **jorencain** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:50 pm

I watched the first disc of the Television Version today, and I think I need to make this a holiday-viewing tradition. I don't have much new to add to the conversation, but this is such a masterpiece that I have to say something. Bergman has complete control and confidence over what he's doing; it's obvious that everything in this film was planned down to the last detail.

What I particularly enjoyed this time around is the first night that Emilie, Fanny, and Alexander spend at the bishop's house. His family looks like the cast of a Fellini film, and even if their depictions are a little severe, it perfectly captures how a child (Alexander) would perceive and/or remember them. The family, house, dinner conversation, etc. make this the most oppressive and non-child-friendly home in the world, and their arrival (ending with the realization that the windows have bars on them) makes a perfect setup for the 2nd half of the film.

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261-264 Fanny and Alexander