Synapse: Triumph of the Will

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John Doe · #1 Post by **John Doe** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:03 pm

Leni Riefenstahl' Triumph Of The Will coming on December 8.

Professor Wagstaff · Thu Oct 01, 2015 9:29 pm

John Doe wrote:Leni Riefenstahl' Triumph Of The Will coming on December 8.

InterFilmArt Entertainment is not going to be happy about that.

Minkin · #3 Post by **Minkin** » Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:39 pm

Professor Wagstaff wrote:
John Doe wrote:Leni Riefenstahl' Triumph Of The Will coming on December 8.
InterFilmArt Entertainment is not going to be happy about that.

Or Riefenstahl/Janus

I suspect some sort of Riefenstahl set from Criterion at some point, in spite of this announcement

John Doe · #4 Post by **John Doe** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:00 am

InterFilmArt's edition is the one to go for. Derived from 4k scan, supervised by Goebbels's wife and it will feature commentary by Hitler.

MichaelB · #5 Post by **MichaelB** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:16 am

I knew there was something fishy about Magda Goebbels' reported suicide.

kekid · #6 Post by **kekid** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:02 pm

John Doe wrote:InterFilmArt's edition is the one to go for. Derived from 4k scan, supervised by Goebbels's wife and it will feature commentary by Hitler.

Why do we believe the Synapse edition will be inferior, given that it also claims to be based on the restored material?
Is InterFilmArts edition available? If so, could you please provide a link as to where to find it? Thank you.

kidc85 · #7 Post by **kidc85** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:14 pm

kekid wrote:
John Doe wrote:InterFilmArt's edition is the one to go for. Derived from 4k scan, supervised by Goebbels's wife and it will feature commentary by Hitler.
Why do we believe the Synapse edition will be inferior, given that it also claims to be based on the restored material?
Is InterFilmArts edition available? If so, could you please provide a link as to where to find it? Thank you.

Running joke.

IFA are a company of peculiar repute. The saga is documented here.

vertovfan · #8 Post by **vertovfan** » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:10 pm

I'm all for contextualization, but they may have gone a bit overboard on the new Triumph of the Will blu-ray. For example, there's a burnt-in digital subtitle telling the viewer "a bouquet for the Führer" when a little girl hands Hitler a bunch of flowers.

Jonathan S · #9 Post by **Jonathan S** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:56 am

vertovfan wrote:I'm all for contextualization, but they may have gone a bit overboard on the new Triumph of the Will blu-ray. For example, there's a burnt-in digital subtitle telling the viewer "a bouquet for the Führer" when a little girl hands Hitler a bunch of flowers.

On Synapse's old DVD that subtitle was removable. Now Robert A Harris (who supervised the new transfer) has confirmed on HTF that on the new edition "IDs are not removable, by design." It seems the film has been "restored" only to be digitally defaced. No sale here...

kidc85 · #10 Post by **kidc85** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:45 pm

vertovfan wrote:I'm all for contextualization, but they may have gone a bit overboard on the new Triumph of the Will blu-ray. For example, there's a burnt-in digital subtitle telling the viewer "a bouquet for the Führer" when a little girl hands Hitler a bunch of flowers.

What? Is that subtitle translating anything or is it literally just identifying what the image is?

MichaelB · #11 Post by **MichaelB** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:56 pm

Perhaps it's a less obtrusive alternative to watermarking? Given that the source film is technically in the public domain, and some people interpret this as "any version is fair game to redistribute, even if it's a separately copyrighted restoration", I can see why they might have gone down that road.

Jonathan S · #12 Post by **Jonathan S** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 1:03 pm

kidc85 wrote:
vertovfan wrote:I'm all for contextualization, but they may have gone a bit overboard on the new Triumph of the Will blu-ray. For example, there's a burnt-in digital subtitle telling the viewer "a bouquet for the Führer" when a little girl hands Hitler a bunch of flowers.
What? Is that subtitle translating anything or is it literally just identifying what the image is?

I have the Synapse DVD with the same "subtitle" (in the motorcade sequence) and there is nothing spoken or written to translate at that moment. The subtitles that do translate speeches etc. "should be removable," according to Harris.

Robert A. Harris wrote:Eighty years after the fact, when few people are able to identify those who would have been known at the time, the titles identify those who might well go unknown.

vertovfan · #13 Post by **vertovfan** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:42 pm

There are several other, not quite so glaring examples as well, like "marching Brown Shirt Battalions on the street below" during one of the aerial shots of Nuremberg, or "the cult of darkness and fire" during a torchlit rally. Some of the name identifiers are actually helpful, but unfortunately they're burnt-in (there are switchable English, Spanish, French and Japanese subtitles for the dialogue), and sometimes they use a different font that's larger and more ornate. I completely agree with providing background information, details and contextualization, but I found many of these titles distracting rather than informative. There's also a small logo for The Film Preserve that appears in the bottom right corner at various times throughout the film, probably due to the copyright issues that Michael mentioned.

EddieLarkin · #14 Post by **EddieLarkin** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:36 pm

Jonathan S wrote:I have the Synapse DVD with the same "subtitle" (in the motorcade sequence) and there is nothing spoken or written to translate at that moment.

Are they removable on the DVD (the IDs that is)?

Jonathan S · #15 Post by **Jonathan S** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:54 pm

Yes, certainly all the IDs I've checked are removable, including that idiotic "bouquet" one. They seem to be included within the whole English subtitles option that incorporates translations too. I recall reading that Synapse have "upgraded" their DVD, so maybe the new version forces the IDs on that format too. Mine is the 2006 Synapse DVD.

EddieLarkin · #16 Post by **EddieLarkin** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:05 pm

I can understand if Synapse would have a problem with releasing an unadulterated version of this film, what with the potential for it to be used as inspiration or as a recruitment tool. Sadly, that's the only version I'm interested in seeing (for very very different reasons, obviously).

nickrp · #17 Post by **nickrp** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:47 pm

I'd also like to know if the "upgraded" DVD also forces the IDs and logo bug. If not, I may consider buying the DVD because, as it is, the blu-ray isn't a consideration.

TMDaines · #18 Post by **TMDaines** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:35 pm

Would be to good know whether, on the Blu-ray, they are just subtitles that cannot be turned off or whether they are burnt into the video? If it is the first then they can still be removed with certain software on the PC.

vertovfan · #19 Post by **vertovfan** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:07 pm

I assume they're burnt jnto the video, as there are already switchable subtitles for English, Spanish, French and Japanese. The "informational" subtitles appear in all of them, as well as when they're switched off. My player only lists those four subtitle tracks; there's no fifth track that automatically kicks in when the others are turned off.

TMDaines · #20 Post by **TMDaines** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:45 pm

If the non-optional information subtitles appear in front of any selectable subtitles then they cannot be burnt into the video.

kidc85 · #21 Post by **kidc85** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:58 pm

From the Forum Blu-Ray:

Vidya wrote:Additionally, if you view the movie with subs other than English, you still get the forced IDs at the bottom of the screen in English in addition to translations of the IDs at the top of the screen in the selected language.

That sounds fairly conclusively burnt-in.

tenia · #22 Post by **tenia** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:59 pm

I believe it is possible to force subs without them appearing in any subtitling option nor as a specific subtitle track.
The only way to remove them would be by extracting the video then remuxing it without the hidden subtitle track.

kidc85 · #23 Post by **kidc85** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:04 pm

It looks like this is a conscious piracy counter-measure rather than a mastering mishap, which is they chose to go down the burnt-in route. It would be difficult to deny it's not an effective measure: I definitely would not buy a pirated copy of it regardless of how cheap it was. Of course, I now won't buy Synapse's release either (which I was planning on in the next week or so) so...

#24 Post by **swo17** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:50 pm

Whenever I've encountered machine-forced subs they've had their own track, I'm just unable to disable it. Is this not always the case?

MichaelB · #25 Post by **MichaelB** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 8:54 pm

I don't think you can have more than one subtitle track displaying at the same time. Which means that the permanent ones are indeed burned in, since you can overlay optional ones on top.

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