300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

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willoneill
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#76 Post by willoneill » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:38 pm

It's kind of funny, since you'd think that after UHD became a universally region-free format, the pendulum would have swung that way for blu-ray as well, yet it seems to be the reverse. On the other hand maybe the labels are just trying to protect whatever potential physical media revenue they can.

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knives
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#77 Post by knives » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:26 pm

By excluding themselves from one of the world’s biggest markets?

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MichaelB
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#78 Post by MichaelB » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm

willoneill wrote:It's kind of funny, since you'd think that after UHD became a universally region-free format, the pendulum would have swung that way for blu-ray as well, yet it seems to be the reverse. On the other hand maybe the labels are just trying to protect whatever potential physical media revenue they can.
The rightsholders, not the labels.

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willoneill
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#79 Post by willoneill » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:51 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:28 pm
willoneill wrote:It's kind of funny, since you'd think that after UHD became a universally region-free format, the pendulum would have swung that way for blu-ray as well, yet it seems to be the reverse. On the other hand maybe the labels are just trying to protect whatever potential physical media revenue they can.
The rightsholders, not the labels.
Ooops, yes, that's what I actually meant. Typing too quickly.

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willoneill
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#80 Post by willoneill » Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:53 pm

knives wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:26 pm
By excluding themselves from one of the world’s biggest markets?
Or by selling the rights to a different label in that market. The thinking being that they can get a better price with region-exclusivity.

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MichaelB
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#81 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:18 am

The rightsholder (and indeed Region A-based label) argument is that it's not a level playing field - the US is a much bigger market than the UK, and so the US rights are a fair bit more expensive to clear, and US labels aren't happy about region-free releases from the UK that are universally compatible with US systems because they know that those discs cost less to put together. (Granted, the UK release has to factor in BBFC clearance fees, but they're still likely to have the advantage when all relevant costs are totted up.)

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tenia
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#82 Post by tenia » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:34 am

MichaelB wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:18 am
US labels aren't happy about region-free releases from the UK that are universally compatible with US systems because they know that those discs cost less to put together
But isn't this unhappiness quite theoretical rather than practical since in the end, the vast majority of people simply are buying the existing domestic releases and are most often unwilling to import (or sometimes even unaware what "import" is) ?

It reminds me a discussion I had with TF1 Video, who weren't very happy with the UK optional-english-subtitles release of Classe tous risques because it was threatening the sales of their potential French release. Yeah, well, except the BFI released their BD in 2014 and there still isn't even a French BD (and it's going to be sub-licenced to Coin de mire anyway for a possible 2021 release), so in practice, what were they afraid of exactly ? They haven't even released the damn thing !

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MichaelB
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#83 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:08 am

Well, region-locking doesn't apply between the UK and France, so presumably the optional subtitles were the sticking point - but unless the BFI had been contractually ordered to make them compulsory (which I assume wasn't the case, as in my experience the BFI is pretty scrupulous about sticking to every last dot and comma of every contract), it's hard to see what grounds they have for complaint.

But if a US label complains to a rightsholder about cheaper UK editions being too easily available, the implied threat is that they'll no longer continue licensing that rightsholder's titles unless they start enforcing region-locking. And if that happens, the direct hit to the rightsholder will be a fair bit greater because, as you say, importing really doesn't make much bottom-line difference in the wider scheme of things.

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tenia
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#84 Post by tenia » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:00 am

Yes, the optional subs were the issue : it seems TF1 haven't been able to contractually force them (whatever the reasons) and were unhappy about having a concurrent Region B release but again, in the grander more practical scheme of things, not only did they never so far have even released the movie in France anyway, but like Region locking between regions, if only a small fraction of people import anyway, how can a whole market be working around contractual clauses like these if it barely makes a difference ?

It looks like putting a lot of thoughts and technics in something that seems to only have a marginal impact on sales anyway. Moreover, I suppose most people who do import have bought a region compatible player so region locking doesn't prevent them from importing anyway. So it seems to concern so few people that the more heated discussions you're suggesting could happen between a rightholder and a label look like quite some over-reaction.

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rapta
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#85 Post by rapta » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:21 pm

Just chiming in to say I noticed the extras on Hawks' The Criminal Code mentions a comparison with the '1950 film noir remake', Henry Levin's Convicted. Guessing there's a good chance that will be in one of the upcoming Columbia Noir sets as well?

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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#86 Post by peerpee » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:00 pm

tenia wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:34 am
It reminds me a discussion I had with TF1 Video, who weren't very happy with the UK optional-english-subtitles release of Classe tous risques because it was threatening the sales of their potential French release. Yeah, well, except the BFI released their BD in 2014 and there still isn't even a French BD (and it's going to be sub-licenced to Coin de mire anyway for a possible 2021 release), so in practice, what were they afraid of exactly ? They haven't even released the damn thing !
If you were to mention to TF1 that UK labels have hundreds of thousands of French citizens living in the UK to cater for, who need to see the film as the filmmaker intended, it utterly evaporates their pathetic unhappiness. Criterion have never forced player-generated subtitles on any of their discs, and neither should any UK company, ever.

Foreign labels who campaign to rightsholders for Blu-rays to be restrictively region-encoded just don't like the competition. The best way to stick it to them is to get a region-free player.

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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#87 Post by MichaelB » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:18 pm

I've never been contractually ordered to include forced subs. I was expecting to with the Argos licenses in Arrow's Borowczyk box, based on extensive precedent from that company, but in the event the subject never came up and I obviously wasn't going to mention it myself.

And yes, just get a region-free player. Sadly, there's no sign of major studios budging on this - if anything, they've got tougher on this in recent years, and I gather (although nobody's mentioned any names) that Region A labels complaining are indeed a factor.

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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#88 Post by peerpee » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:23 pm

I kept finding it in contracts from French and Italian licensors, and I got it removed from each one before signing, by explaining that foreigners living in the UK need to see the film as the filmmaker intended.

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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#89 Post by Calvin » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:05 pm

MichaelB wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:31 am
It's certainly reasonable to infer that Johnny O'Clock is an upcoming title (Indicator has already confirmed a Robert Rossen title, it's clearly got to be either made for or distributed by Columbia, it can't be Lilith because that's already out on Indicator, and it's unlikely to be All the King's Men, The Brave Bulls or They Came to Cordura), but I never explicitly linked it to Volume 3 or indeed said anything that wasn't already in the public domain.
I certainly presumed that it would be Johnny O'Clock from the first announcement (given its inclusion in Sony's own noir collections) but isn't All the King's Men also considered to be noir?

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Ribs
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#90 Post by Ribs » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:43 pm

While I think there’s an argument for it, it really isn’t kind of your prototypical noir like most of these sets are going with (and also has a way bigger profile that would better suit an individual release)

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knives
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#91 Post by knives » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:48 pm

willoneill wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:53 pm
knives wrote:
Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:26 pm
By excluding themselves from one of the world’s biggest markets?
Or by selling the rights to a different label in that market. The thinking being that they can get a better price with region-exclusivity.
For the rights holders, not the labels.

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TMDaines
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#92 Post by TMDaines » Mon Jan 11, 2021 8:09 am

peerpee wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:23 pm
I kept finding it in contracts from French and Italian licensors, and I got it removed from each one before signing, by explaining that foreigners living in the UK need to see the film as the filmmaker intended.
And thank you for that.

With an HTPC, I can easily turn off even forced subs, but it is nice to have very fewer discs where that is a requirement. I think I have fewer than 10 out of several thousand, with only a couple where they are actually burnt into the video.

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Ribs
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#93 Post by Ribs » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:53 pm


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rapta
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Re: 300-311 Columbia Noir #1 and #2

#94 Post by rapta » Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:03 am

Volume 3 announced for May!

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domino harvey
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Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

#95 Post by domino harvey » Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:29 am

The Dark Past, nice! One of the most ridiculous bastardizations of psychology to ever come out of Hollywood. I thought it was Paramount (or possibly Universal after the catalog acquisition), not Sony though, so it never even occurred to me

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Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

#96 Post by rapta » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:07 am

Wasn't familiar with it but Holden and Cobb are great so it's a must see for me! In fact so far this is the best lineup ('scuse the pun) so far!

That said I'm wondering if they'll still assemble all the Bogie titles in one set, or just scatter them through one or two or more volumes. I assume they've got things like The Burglar, Pushover, The Brothers Rico and Walk a Crooked Mile on the way...

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Boosmahn
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Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

#97 Post by Boosmahn » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:32 am

Based on quick Google searches, these films appear to have worse reception than those in the previous sets, but I'm still in!

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domino harvey
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Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

#98 Post by domino harvey » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:42 am

I’ve seen all of them and would not rate any of them very highly, but none of them are terrible either

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Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

#99 Post by swo17 » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:47 am

"I've seen all of them and none of them are terrible" would be a great pullquote

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therewillbeblus
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Re: 300-317 Columbia Noir #1-3

#100 Post by therewillbeblus » Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:48 am

This is one of those rare divergences between domino and myself, but I look forward to revisiting it. I recall the film attempted to be both resolutely sincere and outrageous, which didn't work for me.
therewillbeblus wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:04 am
The Dark Past: A noir that shifts towards the psychological rather than the existential but lays itself unapologetically transparent, a direction I fear is not necessarily admirable here. Cobb and Holden have some fun chewing on the outlandish material, but this is a very silly film, with Freudian dream analysis saving the day and initiating a cure that undoes social conditioning. I can appreciate that when taken as a product of the time, this was pretty daring to tackle such a bold presentation of the power of psychology as practically a mystical process. Unfortunately it was still tough for me to get on its level and not view it as ridiculous camp, when it’s trying to take itself more seriously than most noirs do even when venturing to brave places.

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