Criterion OOP

The scuttlebutt on Criterion, Eclipse, and Janus Films. Lists and polls are STRONGLY discouraged.
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Brian C
I hate to be That Pedantic Guy but...
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Re: Criterion OOP

#426 Post by Brian C » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:39 pm

wattsup32 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:28 pm
Yes, and in the interests of forum solidarity, we ought to arrange a local pick and ship exchange so we don't get gouged getting these things. For instance, I was able to get my hands on 2 copies of Harold and Maude (at least my email says they are ready for pickup). I'd gladly exchange one for Nashville, Don't Look Now, or Rosemary's baby. I believe I can also get an extra copy of Days of Heaven.
Or ... we could have fun scavenger hunts.

Mouse
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Re: Criterion OOP

#427 Post by Mouse » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:45 pm

wattsup32 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:28 pm
Boosmahn wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:57 pm
Remember to check your local B&N -- I went to mine a few hours ago and saw Blu-ray copies of Don't Look Now, Days of Heaven, and The Friends of Eddie Coyle (I didn't look for any others). I only bought Days of Heaven because of the lack of a good alternative.
Yes, and in the interests of forum solidarity, we ought to arrange a local pick and ship exchange so we don't get gouged getting these things. For instance, I was able to get my hands on 2 copies of Harold and Maude (at least my email says they are ready for pickup). I'd gladly exchange one for Nashville, Don't Look Now, or Rosemary's baby. I believe I can also get an extra copy of Days of Heaven.
I agree with this plan.

I managed to buy or set aside most of these. Kinda kicking myself a bit though since I bought all of these titles except Days of Heaven on blu when they were released, but sold a large chunk of my collection to make ends meet this last year. I held on to most of the irreplaceable ones, I just never thought these would ever go out of print.

So if anyone wants to sell a copy of the Don't look Now blu from their area let me know. I managed to find a dvd copy in one of the 3 local barnes and noble, but I'd much prefer the blu. I can also look for anything you're looking for and trade.

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tenia
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Re: Criterion OOP

#428 Post by tenia » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:18 am


dwk wrote:Plus, I'm not sure Paramount actually has a Blu-ray suitable HD master of Days of Heaven and if they have to create one, I assume that Malick would have to approve it.
Criterion's BD re-uses the almost 15 years old master originally created for the 2007 DVD. Paramount could very well re-uses a similar master, which I believe they have.

I also don't think they contractually have to obtain Malick's approval to create a new master. Not that Criterion probably had to either, it's just what they do.

black&huge
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Re: Criterion OOP

#429 Post by black&huge » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:02 am

I was only concerned about medium cool and naked prey. So now I'm just hoping Naked Prey isn't on the chopping block if so I'm paying full msrp for one of these. I own 4 out of the 6 oop already

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dwk
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Re: Criterion OOP

#430 Post by dwk » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:17 am

tenia wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:18 am

Criterion's BD re-uses the almost 15 years old master originally created for the 2007 DVD. Paramount could very well re-uses a similar master, which I believe they have.

I also don't think they contractually have to obtain Malick's approval to create a new master. Not that Criterion probably had to either, it's just what they do.
To be fair the Blu came out in 2010, so at the time the master was only three years old.

I may be mistaken, but I think some DGA rules from the 90s call for the director or a person of their choice to be involved with the creation of new video masters if said director wants to supervise. Though the film does predate that, and, you could be right, he may not have to have any input.

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tenia
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Re: Criterion OOP

#431 Post by tenia » Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:51 am

It seems to me that many movies are remastered or restored with somebody's approval solely to boost the authority of the work done on it. I'd have to check but I'm quite certain some remasters or restorations were done without this kind of approvals.

As for Days of Heaven, what I meant to say if that Criterion didn't do much more for their BD release than re-using their pre-existing master. Providing Paramount has one, they could just do the same, I guess.

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Brian C
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Re: Criterion OOP

#432 Post by Brian C » Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:49 am

All right, HAROLD AND MAUDE shipped for me now, so looks like I went 4-for-4 in my panic buying sweepstakes without having to pay more than MSRP. Feels like I really dodged a bullet this time ... things were much easier when the StudioCanal titles went OOP and the only Blu I was missing was THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH.

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luminol
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Re: Criterion OOP

#433 Post by luminol » Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:20 am

Mouse wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:45 pm
wattsup32 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:28 pm
Boosmahn wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:57 pm
Remember to check your local B&N -- I went to mine a few hours ago and saw Blu-ray copies of Don't Look Now, Days of Heaven, and The Friends of Eddie Coyle (I didn't look for any others). I only bought Days of Heaven because of the lack of a good alternative.
Yes, and in the interests of forum solidarity, we ought to arrange a local pick and ship exchange so we don't get gouged getting these things. For instance, I was able to get my hands on 2 copies of Harold and Maude (at least my email says they are ready for pickup). I'd gladly exchange one for Nashville, Don't Look Now, or Rosemary's baby. I believe I can also get an extra copy of Days of Heaven.
I agree with this plan.

I managed to buy or set aside most of these. Kinda kicking myself a bit though since I bought all of these titles except Days of Heaven on blu when they were released, but sold a large chunk of my collection to make ends meet this last year. I held on to most of the irreplaceable ones, I just never thought these would ever go out of print.

So if anyone wants to sell a copy of the Don't look Now blu from their area let me know. I managed to find a dvd copy in one of the 3 local barnes and noble, but I'd much prefer the blu. I can also look for anything you're looking for and trade.

Same here. I set aside La dolce vita, Harold and Maude, and Election (just in case). Let me know if you're interested in one of those!

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dwk
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Re: Criterion OOP

#434 Post by dwk » Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:06 pm

tenia wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:51 am
It seems to me that many movies are remastered or restored with somebody's approval solely to boost the authority of the work done on it. I'd have to check but I'm quite certain some remasters or restorations were done without this kind of approvals.

As for Days of Heaven, what I meant to say if that Criterion didn't do much more for their BD release than re-using their pre-existing master. Providing Paramount has one, they could just do the same, I guess.
I'm sure a large number are done without the director's approval. And, a few bad apples aside (Friedkin, WKW, etc.), having input from the director and DOP is the right thing to do.

And, I fully expect the Paramount Day of Heaven Blu-ray to use the Criterion master. (Nashville, on the other hand, has had a relatively recent 4K restoration, and I expect Paramount to use that and release it as part of their Paramount Presents line.)

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CyRo3
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Re: Criterion OOP

#435 Post by CyRo3 » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:13 pm

wattsup32 wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:28 pm
Boosmahn wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:57 pm
Remember to check your local B&N -- I went to mine a few hours ago and saw Blu-ray copies of Don't Look Now, Days of Heaven, and The Friends of Eddie Coyle (I didn't look for any others). I only bought Days of Heaven because of the lack of a good alternative.
Yes, and in the interests of forum solidarity, we ought to arrange a local pick and ship exchange so we don't get gouged getting these things. For instance, I was able to get my hands on 2 copies of Harold and Maude (at least my email says they are ready for pickup). I'd gladly exchange one for Nashville, Don't Look Now, or Rosemary's baby. I believe I can also get an extra copy of Days of Heaven.
I lurk on here all the time, but I’ve posted only twice or so.

I just wanted to say that do like this idea of exchanging from out local Barnes and Nobles within the forum. I can get blu-rays of Harold and Maude and Nashville. I’d like to exchange one for The Friends of Eddie Coyle, if possible.

It kills me that people are snatching these up with the sole intent of scalping.

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domino harvey
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Re: Criterion OOP

#436 Post by domino harvey » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:25 pm

Feel free to start a thread in this subforum if y’all want to arrange something, but let’s not use this thread for that please

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Criterion OOP

#437 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:00 pm

This posted on the bluray.com forum....
I contacted Criterion to ask about the Fellini set and they confirmed it's not going OOP

Quote:
Hi Michael,

Thank you for your email! You are certainly welcome to purchase the ESSENTIAL FELLINI set, if you wish, but there's no rush.
LA DOLCE VITA will continue to be part of the set and the latest OOP status of the standalone release for this does not affect the FELLINI box set.

We do not typically disclose things that are about to go out of print, but I can assure you that there is nothing else in our catalog that is due to be OOP in the near future.

For additional reference, these are the titles that recently went out of print for us due to licensing:
DAYS OF HEAVEN
DON'T LOOK NOW
HAROLD AND MAUDE
LA DOLCE VITA
NASHVILLE
ROSEMARY'S BABY

As usual, if we should ever recover the rights to any of our out-of-print titles, we will happily re-release them.
Hope this puts your mind at ease and have a great weekend!

Best,
Kseniya
The near future quote is a bit concerning. Sounds like more to come down the road

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Big Ben
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Re: Criterion OOP

#438 Post by Big Ben » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:05 pm

I mean of course there's going to be more OOP stuff in the future but I think the key take away from that email is "near future". At least more titles won't be going away any time soon.

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Wigs by Leonard
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Re: Criterion OOP

#439 Post by Wigs by Leonard » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:18 pm

It's true that, arguably, there remain no other Paramount-licensed titles older than Don't Look Now (first printing 2015) that have enough mass appeal, or whatever was Paramount's reasoning, for them to force the Criterion OOP so that they can release a mainline (non-Paramount Presents) disc, as seems to have been what happened here (a disc can't go OOP if there are still copies to sell, so my interpretation is Paramount refused to renew the rights sometime in the past six or eight months, and these discs all sold out during the flash sale, as they're likely all top sellers).

My money would be on Virgin Suicides and Election to plausibly go OOP in the next 18 months based on the type of title Paramount seems interested in releasing their own discs of, whether Paramount Presents or not. Those are from 2018 and 2017, respectively, but we don't know how these rights expirations affect subsequent pressings of discs, and so it could be a case of selling out the remaining stock, and those presumably have more in the warehouse than the six we lost this week.

Given how it went OOP before, as well, I'm not sleeping on the von Sternberg silents box, either, and will probably pick that up in the next B&N sale.

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FrauBlucher
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Re: Criterion OOP

#440 Post by FrauBlucher » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:23 pm

Big Ben wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:05 pm
I mean of course there's going to be more OOP stuff in the future but I think the key take away from that email is "near future". At least more titles won't be going away any time soon.
You see that comment as glass half full, I see it as glass half empty. Next year we could see another handful of titles go top. That is way too soon for my liking

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Brian C
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Re: Criterion OOP

#441 Post by Brian C » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:57 pm

I see it as more than half full - it seems almost all the way full to me. I think it's easy to read something into "near future" but, in context, all it means to me is that we're good for now but who knows about the future. It seems fairly likely that Criterion doesn't know when the next titles will go OOP, or which titles those will be, with much more certainty than we do.

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therewillbeblus
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Re: Criterion OOP

#442 Post by therewillbeblus » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:38 pm

So I guess The Friends of Eddie Coyle is safe after all

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Luke M
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Re: Criterion OOP

#443 Post by Luke M » Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:55 am

I'm in the glass half full camp. But I still ordered the MoC Medium Cool anyway.

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justeleblanc
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Re: Criterion OOP

#444 Post by justeleblanc » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:55 pm

So basically, Criterion sells x number of Nashville blu rays. Paramount's like "crap, I want in on that," and so they yank the license and then release the title on their own. But when this happened in the past (say with Fox), did the studio release actually sell more copies than the Criterion? My guess is it didn't, and that the Criterion branding largely aids the sale of the film. (I mean, is a title like Harold and Maude really going to sell well on Blu ray without a CC spine?) Perhaps someone knows of a way to answer this question?

Vincejansenist
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Re: Criterion OOP

#445 Post by Vincejansenist » Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:22 pm

I don't think actual sales has much to do with it tbh. The new head of this division of Paramount has just come in and just wants to have some new things to share to the investors at the next quarterly meeting. In these still early days of streaming reorganization none of this stuff has to make much if any money, it just has to look like things are shifting and new to generate excitement and that'll buy you a few years of salary and stock options before they decide to cycle someone else new in.

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justeleblanc
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Re: Criterion OOP

#446 Post by justeleblanc » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:31 am

I should become an investor and call bs on this strategy at the next investors' meeting. (Is that even an option?) It just makes zero sense for them to suddenly spend resources on Harold and Maude, Nashville, and Days of Heaven when Star Trek, Mission Impossible, Indiana Jones, and Transformers are the money makers. The fate of Paramount+ (and of the studio more broadly) rests on the popularity of their franchises and family content. Battling over 50 year old films with limited commercial appeal is no way to save the studio.

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Drucker
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Re: Criterion OOP

#447 Post by Drucker » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:15 am

If you love these old films, and want to have a way to watch them, you may just sign up for streaming services. It's the sad truth. My friends and I are all die-hard record collectors, but two of them only got into buying Criterions in the last three months, and that was in part because of me rambling about how great they are all the time. Keeping a recurring customer on the hook for $10 a month for a year is worth it to these companies. Plus, given the way the advertising industry and regulations are moving, it is incumbent upon all media companies to get as much data about their audience as possible. If you want to watch Harold and Maude, you provide your email address, and now they have you in their data graph and can target you with ads in their larger universe.

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Black Hat
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Re: Criterion OOP

#448 Post by Black Hat » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:14 am

Criterion NFTs here we come! (Joking aside, they'd make a killing and should do this)

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DRW.mov
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Re: Criterion OOP

#449 Post by DRW.mov » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:22 am

Black Hat wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:14 am
Criterion NFTs here we come! (Joking aside, they'd make a killing and should do this)
No. No no no. NFT’s are HORRIBLE for the environment and should not in any way be encouraged. Shocked I even have to say this.

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justeleblanc
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Re: Criterion OOP

#450 Post by justeleblanc » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:37 pm

Drucker wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:15 am
If you love these old films, and want to have a way to watch them, you may just sign up for streaming services. It's the sad truth. My friends and I are all die-hard record collectors, but two of them only got into buying Criterions in the last three months, and that was in part because of me rambling about how great they are all the time. Keeping a recurring customer on the hook for $10 a month for a year is worth it to these companies. Plus, given the way the advertising industry and regulations are moving, it is incumbent upon all media companies to get as much data about their audience as possible. If you want to watch Harold and Maude, you provide your email address, and now they have you in their data graph and can target you with ads in their larger universe.
Yeah, I get Paramount's logic. And I do think it's great that all these streaming services exist. But I'm not going to sign up for Paramount+ in order to watch Nashville or Rosemary's Baby. In fact, I'm less likely to sign up for it now that they're paying these silly licensing games with Criterion. I get the sense that these streaming services need brand loyalty in order to survive. Disney and Warners/HBO have that branding power. Paramount does not. So they shouldn't be acting petty with companies that do have brand loyalty, as it's just going to make Criterion fans think Paramount sucks. People might hate Disney, but enough of them are addicted to Star Wars and Marvel so they won't unsubscribe. Paramount, on the other hand... if people start hating them, they'll unsubscribe. Star Trek and Transformers (let alone Hal Ashby and Roman Polanski) are not addicting enough to prevent that from happening. Just my two cents.

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