UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[Finch]

Please do share them, AxeYou.

88 have completed the regrading of the Hell of the Living Dead 4k and are offering a replacement program. They said the re-framing of House on the Edge of the Park will take longer but they are on it.

[hearthesilence]

While we are on the topic, I thought of some 4K releases that have especially poor audio that deserve a caveat:
Anatomy of a Murder - stereo is a 5.1 downmix with heavy noise reduction (though I believe the Criterion blu has even more, but is the actual 2.0)
Dawn of the Dead - Ridiculously bass-heavy and so sounds very muddy
For a Few Dollars More - Very heavy noise reduction
Halloween (shout) - Very heavy noise reduction
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance - stereo is a 5.1 downmix with heavy noise reduction
Some Like it Hot - Heavy noise reduction and opening snare hit is missing (exact same audio as Criterion blu-ray)

There are many other 4Ks which I could have mentioned that sound worse than previous releases (or just bad in general), but I'm not sure where you want to draw the line with it.

I also notice that A Clockwork Orange does have an audio caveat for the 5.1 mix, but I agree with blah-ray:

I've read observations from people, some even from professional reviewers, that the new 5.1 track is flawed. Frankly, I disagree; I think it sounds good. Most complain about it being brighter, which I imagine is based on the new centre channel having its high frequencies much less rolled-off. I prefer it. I don't care much for the ambient dialogue now in the surround channels, but the centre channel's 'unveiling' is by far the biggest change here, and it is an improvement.

The 5.1 remix does actually have much better audio fidelity than the included mono, which sounds muffled by comparison.

This is great info, thanks! Definitely post more, it's definitely a dealbreaker for me if I already have a Blu-ray from the same master (albeit in HD) and there's no DV or HDR involved.

[M-A]

This is great info, thanks! Definitely post more, it's definitely a dealbreaker for me if I already have a Blu-ray from the same master (albeit in HD) and there's no DV or HDR involved.

The thing is that a lot of the time, the better sounding audio track is on an old DVD, Laserdisc, or even VHS. I would say it is rare for a blu to have a significantly better audio track than its 4K counterpart, especially when they are from the same master.
Off the top of my head, there are:
Criterion blu vs Kino 4K of The Silence of the Lambs
Criterion blu vs Kino 4K of In the Heat of the Night
Arrow/Turbine blu vs Universal 4K of The Thing

Blah-ray has a good write up for a lot of tracks for a lot of films, if you want to look at others:
https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/

[Finch]

cdgullo on how BFI and Criterion might have mastered their Seventh Seal 4ks

Chris's review of the Criterion 4k

Looking at Chris's reviews of both, they actually both get the same score of 9/10 for the picture so the DV mastering of the BFI is subtle enough not to warrant a higher score for the UK disc. Criterion gets a 10/10 for the extras, BFI a 7. I saw a few Blu-ray.com users being unhappy with the BFI subtitles though I can't remember what their problem with the subs was exactly. So, on balance, both releases are wonderful but Criterion's seems more comprehensive overall.

[Finch]

Chris's review of Triangle of Sadness

Since the German 4k's HDR grade was not approved by the filmmakers, the Criterion is the one to get as the most faithful representation of the film.

EDIT: The German release from Alamode is not English-friendly.

[therewillbeblus]

Since the German 4k's HDR grade was not approved by the filmmakers, the Criterion is the one to get as the most faithful representation of the film.

I'm probably getting the Criterion anyways, but have there been any reviews of the German HDR version? I understand your reasoning, but is there no way the HDR could make it look better, even without it abiding by the filmmakers' intention? I've become hesitant to take a rigid X = Y mindset on this topic after a recent reminder showed that a filmmaker's approval does not automatically yield the most optimal result

[Finch]

Let me see what I can dig up regarding reviews of the German 4k. The BR.com thread for it says the release is not English friendly and one user did a breakdown of the disc's specs confirming there being German subs only. I'll add notes to the OP to reflect the lack of English subs.

[therewillbeblus]

Oh that's... very strange. Well, that seals it.

[AxeYou]

cdgullo on how BFI and Criterion might have mastered their Seventh Seal 4ks

Thanks Finch for bringing this up. I just took a measurement of the BFI disc. It's peak brightness hovered between 100 to 400 nits, so definitely not identical to the Criterion transfer.



Also posted a reply to BR.com. But I'm no expert to tell whether BFI really did a separate (conservative) grading or scaled a 100-nits SDR master to 400 nits.

[M Sanderson]

I wouldn't say that From Beyond is quite a reference disc. It struggles oddly, in very dark and very light areas, with a smoky wavering effect. (One scene was possibly intentional and motivated by actual onscreen fog during the approach to the house of Combs, Foree & Frampton.) In one very black moment, brief but noticeable, I actually saw digital glitches that reminded me of streaming on Netflix or Prime. These issues, especially the grain moving in smoky patterns from screen bottom to top, happen enough to distract, though not as persistent as in VS's Death Wish 2 4k, and for the most the film looks vivid and detailed. But it doesn't reach perfection, and it's not like this only happens in the scenes that are bringing in an inferior source material to introduce uncut gore. As a whole, VS's disc enables From Beyond to reach its pulpy, gory heights never seen before on home video, truly elevating a wonderful film, but brings with it bizarre 4k anomaly or compression issues. I'd say it deserves a 4 out of 5 for picture quality. I'm not a technical expert, but I actually buy and watch UHDs.

I've noticed that all VS's titles from major studios do this, to varying extents, whereas for example '90s straight to video titles like Scanner Cop, Scanner Cop 2 and Ticks do not suffer from this. I find this more distracting that any of the complaints about, say, Shout Factory's poor compression of the Halloween sequels. Because I'm trying to figure if the "issue" is actually motivated by something diegetic, like smoke from a candle I didn't notice. I've watched 4k discs from Arrow - who have been delivering superb presentations, culminating in their astonishing presentation of Naked Lunch - Shout, Second Sight, Studio Canal, lots of major studios, and nowhere do I see these distracting issues more than with Vinegar Syndrome 4k discs. Have to say I can't wait for Indicator's 4ks, because when you watch their Blu-rays on a 4k system, the discs are so flawlessly presented, whether an old remaster or fresh scan, that you see no issues whatsoever.

[Finch]

nicwood's take on the Curzon 4ks of Three Colors and Double Life of Veronique

I'm still on the fence on which releases to get though I lean towards the Criterions so I can accrue extra points to hit the target for their $50 gift card. And I vastly prefer their packaging to Curzon's (though I wish they'd dropped the superfluous 2011 BDs!).

[AxeYou]

I second M-A on the sad state of audio presentation today. I recently went through my entire collection, researched blah-ray and other forums, and compiled a list of releases I own with bad audio tracks.

I’d be happy to share here when I get some time, although, as M-A said, I’m not sure where Finch would want to draw the line.

Please do share them, AxeYou.

OK, here we go.

I tried to group these by severity, but it's mostly according to my own somewhat arbitrary judgement. Feel free to read into the links and come up with your own conclusions.

Heavy filtering / muffled

• Anatomy of a Murder
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/12/a ... -1959.html
  • Alternative: 1986 RCA/Columbia LaserDisc
• Bridge on the River Kwai, The
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/03/t ... -1957.html
  • Alternative: 1985 RCA/Columbia Hi-Fi VHS
• Citizen Kane
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2021/12/c ... -1941.html
  • Alternative: 1992 Turner Hi-Fi VHS
• Dawn of the Dead (Theatrical Cut)
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2022/08/d ... -1978.html
  • Alternative: 2017 Midnight Factory BD or 2013 JP Happinet BD
• Dr. Strangelove
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2021/08/d ... -1964.html
  • Alternative: 1994 LaserDisc
• For a Few Dollars More
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2022/06/f ... -1965.html
  • Alternative: 1984 Key Video Hi-Fi VHS
• Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/12/m ... -1939.html
  • Alternative: 1995 Columbia Tri-Star LaserDisc
• Raging Bull
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2018/01/r ... -1980.html
  • Alternative: 1990 Criterion LaserDisc
• Rear Window
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2017/03/r ... -1954.html
  • Alternative: Universal DVD
• Wizard of Oz, The
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2022/04/t ... -1939.html
  • Alternative: 1989 MGM LaserDisc

Moderate filtering

• 2001: A Space Odyssey
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2021/08/2 ... -1968.html
  • Alternative: 1997 LaserDisc (PILF-2510) or 1998 MGM DVD
• Double Indemnity
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/07/d ... -1944.html
  • Alternative: 1991 MCA LaserDisc
• Fistful of Dollars, A
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2022/03/a ... -1964.html
  • Alternative: 1985 CBS/Fox LaserDisc
• Full Metal Jacket
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2021/08/f ... -1987.html
  • Alternative: 1999 Warner R1 DVD
• Godfather, The
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2022/03/t ... -1972.html
  • Alternative: No good alternative
• Great Escape, The
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/12/t ... -1963.html
  • Alternative: 1991 MGM LaserDisc
• In the Heat of the Night
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/12/i ... -1967.html
  • Alternative: 2018 Criterion BD (surprise surprise!)
• It's a Wonderful Life
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/12/i ... -1946.html
  • Alternative: 1991 Republic Pictures LaserDisc
• Jaws
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2021/10/jaws-1975.html
  • Alternative: 1995/1997 MCA LaserDisc
• Seventh Seal, The
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2017/03/t ... -1957.html
  • Alternative: 1993 JP LaserDisc
• Vertigo
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2021/12/vertigo-1958.html
  • Alternative: 2005 Universal DVD

Light filtering

• Taxi Driver
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2020/01/t ... -1976.html
  • Very minor. Likely not discernible.
  • Alternative: 1990 Criterion LaserDisc or 1991 Japanese Columbia Tri-Star LaserDisc

Non-OG mix & misc. other issues

• American Gangster
  • UHD only has remixed DTS:X, like many Universal UHD releases
  • Alternative: original BD
• Apocalypse Now (Theatrical Cut)
  • US Lionsgate UHD only has Atmos remix; IT Eagle UHD only has an earlier remixed 5.1
  • Alternative: German UHD & US BD purportedly have OG 5.1 in AC-3
• Back to the Future Trilogy
  • A handful of dialog has minor changes over the years, e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... count=7149
  • LaserDiscs should have original versions
• Big Lebowski, The
  • Comparison against Cinema DTS disc reveals that UHD mix is non-OG: https://fanrestore.com/thread-4252-post ... l#pid75638
• Blade Runner
  • Atmos track has later remixed effects: https://fanrestore.com/thread-2845-post ... l#pid71000
  • Alternative: 2007 BD Dolby TrueHD 5.1 is closer to OG
• Casino
  • DTS:X’s surround channels are boosted compared to theatrical: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.ph ... st19557279
  • Alternative: Cinema DTS or BD 5.1
• Deer Hunter, The
  • StudioCanal’s 5.1 is sourced from 70mm mix but has a brief audio drop at one point. Their 2.0 is a different mix (possibly OG stereo) and doesn’t have the drop.
  • Shout’s 2.0 and 5.1 both have the audio drop, and neither sounds like StudioCanal’s 5.1. Hypothesis is their 2.0 is a down mix from their 5.1, which in turn is an old remix.
  • https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... count=1078
  • If I may interject here: I don’t see StudioCanal’s release in the OP. I would place it in the “Appreciable/Solid Upgrade” tier next to Shout, considering its video compression is just a tiny bit inferior to the Shout release when viewed in DV (FEL). Geoff D’s review: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... stcount=71
• Escape from New York
  • Shout’s 2.0 appears to be a unique faithful remaster of the OG theatrical, whereas Eagle only offers 5.1: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=209
  • Compared to StudioCanal: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=583
  • Given the above, I also think Shout’s release should be next to the Eagle in terms of tiering. Neither is perfect. And Shout’s encoding (with DV FEL) is better than StudioCanal’s for sure: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=733
• Gladiator
  • Non-OG: https://fanrestore.com/thread-3094-post ... l#pid60959
  • Alternative: Cinema DTS or Signature Collection DVD AC-3
• Jurassic Park
  • Non-OG, but OG has distorted vocal: https://fanrestore.com/thread-2845-post ... l#pid80131
  • Alternative: 3D BD’s DTS-HD MA track seems to be best-sounding
• Matrix, The
  • Comparison against Cinema DTS disc reveals that both Atmos and 5.1 are complete remixes: https://fanrestore.com/thread-4252-post ... l#pid75604
  • Alternative: Cinema DTS
• Reservoir Dogs
  • Non-OG mix. OG was 2.0.
  • Alternative: US/JP LaserDisc 2.0
• Shawshank Redemption, The
  • Noticeable high end clipping, especially during the opening courtroom scene with the prosecution attorney’s dialog: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=526
  • Alternative: 2008 US BD TrueHD 5.1
• Shining, The
  • Non-OG mix. OG was mono.
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2019/12/t ... -1980.html
  • Alternative: 1999 Warner DVD
• Thing, The
  • Non-OG. Only has DTS:X remix.
  • https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/2016/09/t ... -1982.html
  • https://blog.sporv.com/disentangling-the-thing/
  • Alternative: Signature LaserDisc AC-3 or Shout BD 2.0
• Top Gun
  • Atmos track widely considered a bad mix
  • Alternative: US THX LaserDisc’s AC-3 5.1 track is awesome
• Total Recall
  • Neither the US Lionsgate nor IT Eagle UHD has OG 2.0.
  • Alternative: US LaserDisc

Other Thoughts

In other news, I feel like StudioCanal’s Prince of Darkness should be in the same tier as Eagle’s.

The StudioCanal release has DV FEL, so caps on CAH do not accurately reflect compression artifacts. What’s more, Eagle’s compression is not flawless to begin with. I think Geoff has characterized Eagle’s outputs as “consistently mediocre.”

Conversely, Eagle’s release is HDR10 only, so SC’s DV should be valuable for accurate tone mapping (same applies to Escape from New York).

Additionally, Shout includes both 2.0 (OG? not sure.) and 5.1, whereas Eagle only offers a 5.1 mix.

In Closing

Finch: I'll defer to your judgement on where the line falls to downgrade a tier or add a caveat. I've found this thread one of the most helpful resources on the interwebs when it comes to 4K reviews. Thank you for maintaining it, and hope these rants on audio help!

(Btw, formatting this post was such a pain )

[M-A]

StudioCanal's Prince of Darkness definitely belongs in the poor in HDR10, great in DV category.

As for Eagle, their encoding for a lot of discs is consistently mediocre (opposed to StudioCanal's inconsistency) such as The Fog or Cliffhanger, but they do good encodes sometimes, and Prince of Darkness is definitely one of them.

[Finch]

Thank you AxeYou! I feel your pain with the formatting! I'll copy and paste your comments re the audio into the OP tomorrow with a new shiny Audio column. Ditto your and MA's suggestions for the titles you mentioned.

[Finch]

OP updated with new audio column. Please keep these notes coming as you become aware of more and/or new discs with audio issues.

[Finch]

German review of Capelight's Bloodsport 4k/2023 BD

Bloodsport (Capelight) (if compared to MGM's 2013 BD)
Bloodsport (Capelight) (if compared to their own 2023 BD)

I believe there is a fairly good transfer of the film on a US Warner (?) release that bundles it with Timecop so against that BD, the new 4k probably still also qualifies as a good upgrade. Since we were talking about audio lately, the review says Capelight sourced the OG mono and it sounds much better on both the 4k and 2023 BD.

[Finch]

neonical reviews Naked Lunch

[Finch]

Capelight's Bilitis 4k is one to avoid.

[Finch]

andreas posted caps of the UK version of Three Colors Red. Would appear to be better encoded than Criterion's disc.

EDIT: he also kindly posted Veronique 4k caps.

The one flaw of the UK encoding is clipped highlights on all films so it depends on whether the clipped highlights of the Curzon bother you more than Pixelogic's low pass filtering on the Criterions. Red appears to be better looking throughout on the Curzon but I get the impression that overall the two sets are more or less equally good/flawed. My inclination would be to call both solid upgrades but maybe list the Curzon as a superior import if a consensus forms that the third film does look appreciably better on the UK set.

[Rupert Pupkin]

andreas posted caps of the UK version of Three Colors Red. Would appear to be better encoded than Criterion's disc.

EDIT: he also kindly posted Veronique 4k caps.

The one flaw of the UK encoding is clipped highlights on all films so at least as Blue and White seem to be concerned, it depends on whether the clipped highlights of the Curzon bother you more than Pixelogic's low pass filtering on the Criterions. Red appears to be better looking throughout on the Curzon but I get the impression that overall the two sets are more or less equally good/flawed. My inclination would be to call both solid upgrades but maybe list the Curzon as a superior import if a consensus forms that the third film does look appreciably better on the UK set.

thanks. Sorry if this has been asked before, but are the blu-ray the new restoration 4K downscaled to blu-ray ? or are they the same master than the Criterion UHD combo blu-ray ?

[Finch]

Curzon reused the old blurays from 2011, I think, just like Criterion.

[MichaelB]

They certainly did that with Véronique. The Blu-ray was the first thing I checked, because I wanted to see if it included my Holy Grail of high-definition transfers of the restorations in the Kieślowski Dokumentalista set, but sadly they were the usual MK2 upscales from what are almost certainly pretty elderly analogue masters that now look drastically inferior.

And then I thought I’d check the filesize of the main feature, and it was identical to the one on the older disc. So if you have that already, you’re effectively buying a barebones 4K UHD disc of just the feature, but that’s primarily what I wanted, and I’m happy enough with the presentation.

[rrenault]

Well if Criterion’s HDR-less The Seventh Seal is reference quality, then perhaps Rules of the Game could be too, although I’m still on the fence as to whether or not “Rules” is a justifiable day one preorder if I have the French UHD. Also, is The Seventh Seal truly reference quality and not just a solid upgrade in comparison to Criterion’s 4K-sourced Blu-ray in the Bergman set? Where do we draw the line there?

I ordered Curzon’s Double Life of Veronique 4K, but at the risk of committing heresy, I think I’d be happy with 4K digital versions of The Three Colors films should they ever become available on Apple TV.

[MichaelB]

I’ve hesitated over the Three Colours trilogy - White aside, I’m not a massive fan, and £70 seems a lot to pay for just the three 4K features, since I already have the old BDs.

Can anyone sell me on the bonus BD in the set?

[yoloswegmaster]

I’ve hesitated over the Three Colours trilogy - White aside, I’m not a massive fan, and £70 seems a lot to pay for just the three 4K features, since I already have the old BDs.

Can anyone sell me on the bonus BD in the set?

Someone who has the Curzon said that most of the short films on the bonus disc have been restored and gave a rundown on the masters used for each sort:

THE OFFICE (1966) - 4K Restoration - 2.0 PCM
THE TRAM (1966) - 4K Restoration - silent
CONCERT OF REQUESTS (1967) - 4K Restoration - 2.0 PCM
I WAS A SOLDIER (1971) - solid upscale - 5.1 DTS HD
FACTORY (1971) - 4K Restoration - 5.1 DTS HD
HOSPITAL (1977) - 4K Restoration - 5.1 DTS HD
SEVEN WOMEN OF DIFFERENT AGES (1978) - older HD or 2K Master, soft DNR - 5.1 DTS HD
FROM A NIGHT PORTER'S POINT OF VIEW (1979) - new 4K master, moderate DNR - 5.1 DTS HD
RAILWAY STATION (1980) - 4K Restoration - 5.1 DTS HD
TALKING HEADS (1980) 4K Restoration - 5.1 DTS HD

THE MUSICIANS (1958) BY KAZIMIERZ KARABASZ - older master, moderate to stronger DNR - 5.1 DTS HD
THE FACE (1966) BY PIOTR STUDZIŃSKI | WITH KRZYSZTOF KIESLOWSKI - new 4K master, unrestored scan - 2.0 PCM