UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[Finch]

Seriously, talk about taking one for the team with the inconsistency of several boutique labels and majors like Studio Canal.

[nicolas]

I hope for either a FiM or Visual Data encode.

Between Engine House and Visual Data, is there a general consensus on who's usually more competent? I remember reading something about that somewhere.

And a heartfelt thanks to Nic for your numerous reviews of the latest catalog 4K releases. I'm curious do you literally preorder all these at MSRP? We're truly in your debt

I do mostly with 4K UHD editions, with BD’s not so much unless I really want the edition but that’s happening less and less. I consider 4K the definitive format for films on physical media and therefore I’m buying most films once and am done with it. The truth is, I haven’t previously owned many of the films I buy on UHD, so it’s not a continuous stream of upgrading but often taking things I’ve heard about and finally getting to them now in the "best" format. Persepolis is such a case for example. I‘ve simply been to young to check these films out upon their release.

The many flaws in these releases are obviously very annoying but what can you do? I try and make peace with it as there are other people in charge that don’t care as much about the films they release. Not buying them at all sends the wrong signals at any rate, making them release even less and divert all their attention to streaming or nothing at all. The best thing we can do is making our voices heard as precisely as possible. What went wrong, what went right without unnecessary bashing. Some labels take the right lessons from this (like Shout) and improve their workflows, others couldn’t care less.

Re. Buying. I’ll try my best to get maximum discounts, therefore purchasing at WOWHD / Deep Discount with their 15% off is where I usually go (the 15% covers most shipping and VAT - same with Movies Unlimited‘s 25%) and UK titles from Rarewaves which charge in euros and almost no shipping. That makes them actually (significantly) cheaper than ordering the local German releases which have become so ridiculously expensive. An example: Capelight‘s new Invasion of the Body Snatchers 4K mediabook is 47,99€!

[kniselyb]

Did anyone get a chance to view Le Mepris (Contempt) Lionsgate release and how it compares to Studiocanal. Is it the same transfer/encoding on the Lionsgate? Is it worth an upgrade from the Criterion Bluray?

[kniselyb]

Sorry I meant the Studio canal bluray not criterion. The Criterion was DVD.

Just wondering if its the exact same transfer as the StudioCanal UHD disc and same encoding or is one or the other superior?

[nicolas]

Sorry I meant the Studio canal bluray not criterion. The Criterion was DVD.

Just wondering if its the exact same transfer as the StudioCanal UHD disc and same encoding or is one or the other superior?

I wish I knew too. I read that the Apple TV / iTunes 4K Dolby Vision is just the SC transfer. Based on how Lionsgate treated the film essentially as a MOD / second-tier release I doubt they altered anything.
This would have been the rare case for Criterion to improve upon a disappointing foreign edition had they obtained the rights.

[nicolas]

According to the other forum, Arrow’s Hellraiser set seems to be a great upgrade in all areas that fixes previous issues like framing etc. I’n sure this is another top-tier release.

Also, a friend of mine has received his copy of the new Capelight Germany 4K Mediabook of Invasion of the Body Snatchers and kindly lent it to me for a quick overview.

Compression is VASTLY superior to the Kino in both HDR10 and Dolby Vision. I'm usually not a fan of Capelight and dislike their shot-on-film presentations more than the other way round but this is most certainly their best encode in a long time, if ever. I have a feeling they outsourced the encode to LSP Medien as the crisp look of the film in both layers is completely unlike other low-pass filtered Capelight encodes (When Harry Met Sally, The Misfits,…) and mirrors the strong encodes they delivered for Turbine and Carlotta.

I also have the Kino and am disappointed by it for the encode but I must say that the chroma problem bothered me a lot less in motion than on screenshots, so maybe I‘m not the best one to tell in this particular case but the Capelight looked absolutely solid to me in both HDR10 and DV whereas the Kino is horrendous in both with the chroma problem definitely noticeable in HDR10.

Regarding the audio: The Capelight has an English 5.1 and 2.0 stereo track. German 2.0 is mono according to the menu. I haven’t seen the film yet and therefore no experience with the audio. If anyone wants to know about the missing lines, please provide me with time stamps or other questions and I‘ll try my best. Hopefully this is the OG track!

Other than that, the Capelight master starts with the new MGM and UA logos and does NOT have the OG Transamerica one that’s on the kino. If that’s the only problem, I can absolutely live with it. This is definitely a superior import.

(For all the advantages, Capelight charges a hefty 47.99€ on Amazon). Hoping for a sale soon.

[nicolas]

Paramount have announced a replacement program for the UHD of Rosemary‘s Baby due to the missing lines during the film:

More details & link via Bill Hunt: https://x.com/billhuntbits/status/17179 ... 39727?s=46

[Finch]

Hitch volume 3 reviews of individual films starting to come in.

Rope review

Torn Curtain review

[Finch]

Witness 4k samlop10 review

Witness (Arrow)

Frenzy (Universal) from Hitch Vol 3 Evolvist capsule

[cdnchris]

So far, two NexSpec SDR encodes (The Others and Moonage Daydream) seem at least solid compared to the DV disaster Walkabout.

I've only glanced at Don't Look Now, but I didn't notice the same issues Walkabout featured in any of October's titles, and looking at screengrabs from Videodrome I don't see any of that funky garbage present in the ones for that title. Maybe it was a one-off...

Spoiler

[nicolas]

So far, two NexSpec SDR encodes (The Others and Moonage Daydream) seem at least solid compared to the DV disaster Walkabout.

I've only glanced at Don't Look Now, but I didn't notice the same issues Walkabout featured in any of October's titles, and looking at screengrabs from Videodrome I don't see any of that funky garbage present in the ones for that title. Maybe it was a one-off...

Spoiler

That’s great news! I’d be interested to see if these are after all two “classic” Criterion encodes with some filtering compared to the Studiocanal and Arrow versions (both FiM encodes if I remember correctly). If you have any of these, that would make a great comparison. I’d take the filtering over anything in Walkabout though.

Hopefully Days of Heaven turns out at least solid. That’s pretty much my only concern in regards to Criterion for the next few months.

[bfaison]

Videodrome - I haven’t seen any reviews comparing the Arrow and Criterion UHDs directly but I am very curious because I think the Criterion looks great. There’s a substantial upgrade in details like clothing/fabric and the various knobs, labels and equipment throughout. I don’t know if the filtering mentioned in this thread has been applied, but I was impressed with the disc and would put it in the red category.

Don’t Look Now - The HDR on this one is where I noticed the most improvement. The cinematography is of course much rougher, there’s a lot of out of focus shots, chunky grain, inherent milky black levels, etc but it all looks about as I expected. It’s a nice if subtle upgrade all around considering the Blu-ray was also from a 4K scan. I’d put the new UHD in the blue category

[mhofmann]

Videodrome - I haven’t seen any reviews comparing the Arrow and Criterion UHDs directly but I am very curious because I think the Criterion looks great. There’s a substantial upgrade in details like clothing/fabric and the various knobs, labels and equipment throughout. I don’t know if the filtering mentioned in this thread has been applied, but I was impressed with the disc and would put it in the red category.

I'd also be very curious here as I have not seen any direct comparisons. Over on the blu-ray.com forum, someone mentioned weak encoding (near end of linked page) but for not I'll treat it as rumor, though not very unlikely.

[cdnchris]

I'd also be very curious here as I have not seen any direct comparisons. Over on the blu-ray.com forum, someone mentioned weak encoding (near end of linked page) but for not I'll treat it as rumor, though not very unlikely.

You pointing that out made me go back and check the disc again, as I must have missed something, but I don't see any basis for that comment. If it's the worst they've seen then I'm very curious what they're comparing it to, or if they mean something different with "weak encode." I thought this resolved rather well and looked cleaner than even The Princess Bride, which I thought was rather solid outside of some buzzy sky shots (and the glitch people are experiencing, of course). I feel the screen captures I took look pretty good, much different than PixelLogic's stuff, and nothing like the fuck-up that was Walkabout, so I don't think it's a case where Dolby Vision may be hiding issues. If something is inherently wrong, I'd love someone to point it out so I don't miss anything like it in the future, but I think it looks pretty good.

That’s great news! I’d be interested to see if these are after all two “classic” Criterion encodes with some filtering compared to the Studiocanal and Arrow versions (both FiM encodes if I remember correctly). If you have any of these, that would make a great comparison. I’d take the filtering over anything in Walkabout though.

Unfortunately I don't. Of the Arrow 4K titles that cross over into Criterion's territory, this is the one I didn't pick up (have Naked Lunch and Fear & Loathing, though!) I also passed on Don't Look Now because of complaints, though I'm now realizing they may have solely been based on color grading, which is different from the Blu-ray but I don't think is that bad compared to other garbage I've seen (every film in Criterion's Varda set). Though I'd much prefer comparing the two versions of Videodrome playing back on my TV, I tried comparing captures from the Arrow 4K I grabbed from caps-a-holic to ones I took from Criterion's (not exact frames, mind you), but I'm not sure how reliable that is as I'm not sure how they handle HDR->SDR; mine are darker. The shot where Les Carlson is exploding doesn't look all that different between the two, but then an early scene in the conference room can look a touch softer on the Criterion, while a later scene where James Woods is whipping the TV may be a touch sharper on Criterion's, but it's a crapshoot and not an ideal way to go about things. You'd be better off waiting for them.

[nicolas]

I'd also be very curious here as I have not seen any direct comparisons. Over on the blu-ray.com forum, someone mentioned weak encoding (near end of linked page) but for not I'll treat it as rumor, though not very unlikely.

You pointing that out made me go back and check the disc again, as I must have missed something, but I don't see any basis for that comment. If it's the worst they've seen then I'm very curious what they're comparing it to, or if they mean something different with "weak encode." I thought this resolved rather well and looked cleaner than even The Princess Bride, which I thought was rather solid outside of some buzzy sky shots (and the glitch people are experiencing, of course). I feel the screen captures I took look pretty good, much different than PixelLogic's stuff, and nothing like the fuck-up that was Walkabout, so I don't think it's a case where Dolby Vision may be hiding issues. If something is inherently wrong, I'd love someone to point it out so I don't miss anything like it in the future, but I think it looks pretty good.

That’s great news! I’d be interested to see if these are after all two “classic” Criterion encodes with some filtering compared to the Studiocanal and Arrow versions (both FiM encodes if I remember correctly). If you have any of these, that would make a great comparison. I’d take the filtering over anything in Walkabout though.

Unfortunately I don't. Of the Arrow 4K titles that cross over into Criterion's territory, this is the one I didn't pick up (have Naked Lunch and Fear & Loathing, though!) I also passed on Don't Look Now because of complaints, though I'm now realizing they may have solely been based on color grading, which is different from the Blu-ray but I don't think is that bad compared to other garbage I've seen (every film in Criterion's Varda set). Though I'd much prefer comparing the two versions of Videodrome playing back on my TV, I tried comparing captures from the Arrow 4K I grabbed from caps-a-holic to ones I took from Criterion's (not exact frames, mind you), but I'm not sure how reliable that is as I'm not sure how they handle HDR->SDR; mine are darker. The shot where Les Carlson is exploding doesn't look all that different between the two, but then an early scene in the conference room can look a touch softer on the Criterion, while a later scene where James Woods is whipping the TV may be a touch sharper on Criterion's, but it's a crapshoot and not an ideal way to go about things. You'd be better off waiting for them.

Thanks for your screenshots and your brief overview of your impressions of both discs. I’ve taken a look at the Videodrome caps and don’t necessarily see a difference but, as you said, it’s just that one cap and not the most ideal way to judge. From what I saw simply by zooming in is that the grain on the second shot with James Woods pointing his gun looks very nice on the crimson background and finely resolved without the clunky appearance we tend to associate with filtering. I do notice though that the tiny reflections on his hand are blown-out a bit more and appear frozen. Again, this is just based on that shot. It could be that Walkabout was a one-off but I still have the feeling that NexSpec changed their authoring settings to default less (or none at all) on the filtering but at the expense of highlight definition.
I’m looking forward to your Don’t Look Now caps, Chris, and will definitely reserve judgement on that title until then, as well as Videodrome.

Regarding the UK edition of Don’t Look Now, I can’t recommend that one more. It’s one of my favorite editions ever and incredibly beautiful in every way. If you love the film, treat yourself with a copy. The exclusive bonus features are great as well. It’s a shame that Criterion treats UHD as a mere format upgrade when older BD editions are available and not as a new (last?) chance to improve and extend the earlier work even further by adding new bonus features. There’s barely any enticement for people with the old BD in their collections to upgrade and especially not if there are (Fidelity in Motion-encoded) alternatives available elsewhere.

[FrauBlucher]

Contempt UHD reviewed by Kauffman from Bluray.com

[DeprongMori]

I’ve been considering picking up Shout Factory’s The Company of Wolves, as reports of the picture quality has been largely positive. One thing that seems like a big miss on the 4K restoration is that it is released in 1.85:1 rather than the intended 1.66:1 aspect ratio. (The projection print is hard-matted to 1.66:1.) Comparing the two ARs side-by-side, there is significant cropping of the image and loss of the tops of heads in a variety of scenes.

Not sure why they went that route. Anyone have details on the restoration process?

[nicolas]

Contempt UHD reviewed by Kauffman from Bluray.com

Kaufman truly is one of the least-suitable reviewers for any sort of film, be it analogue („I hate the grain“) or Alexa-shot digital. He has the urge to mention that every single time he posts a review. His 4.5 star PQ rating tells me the grain is to his liking, which lets me believe that it’s the same encode as the SC release which is only sporadically grainy due to the encode. Still, we don’t have a genuine confirmation about what’s the case with that Lionsgate version.

Also, why are BR.com reviewers apart from Svet apparently unable to make 4K screenshots seven years into the format?

[tenia]

Svet don't know how to properly downconvert to SDR so even his 4k caps aren't that good.

[ianthemovie]

I’ve been considering picking up Shout Factory’s The Company of Wolves, as reports of the picture quality has been largely positive. One thing that seems like a big miss on the 4K restoration is that it is released in 1.85:1 rather than the intended 1.66:1 aspect ratio. (The projection print is hard-matted to 1.66:1.) Comparing the two ARs side-by-side, there is significant cropping of the image and loss of the tops of heads in a variety of scenes.

Not sure why they went that route. Anyone have details on the restoration process?

I just checked my copy and you're right, it is in 1.85, even though the back cover, the disc, and the product page on their website all say it's in 1.66. So I don't know what happened there. The special features listed on the back cover are also inaccurate as I noted when this first came out.

[Finch]

Chris's Videodrome Criterion 4k review is up.

If anyone can compare with the Arrow's encode and extras, let us know.

American Graffiti appears to have had a lot of DNR applied, unusually so, for a Universal disc. Nobody who's watched the new release, is happy with the disc and opinions vary on how much better than the old, in itself underwhelming Blu-Ray it is.

Next film in the Hitch Vol 3 set, The Man Who Knew Too Much. Not seen anything in depth about Topaz yet, especially in comparison to the BD.

[FrauBlucher]

Scarlet Street is getting a 4k release

[hearthesilence]

American Graffiti appears to have had a lot of DNR applied, unusually so, for a Universal disc. Nobody who's watched the new release, is happy with the disc and opinions vary on how much better than the old, in itself underwhelming Blu-Ray it is.

Unfortunate but not surprising. I forgot where, but when the original Blu-ray came out, there was a guy who does a lot of work with transferring films to digital (grading, creating DCP's, etc.) who defended the DNR because he mentioned how Super 16 looks way too grainy for a general audience and how it "needs" to be reduced. It left me with the impression that there was no chance the film would ever be released on Blu-ray without grain reduction, not unless a boutique somehow got access to a straight "unrestored" transfer and it's impossible to see how that would happen.

[nicolas]

Chris's Videodrome Criterion 4k review is up.

If anyone can compare with the Arrow's encode and extras, let us know.

American Graffiti appears to have had a lot of DNR applied, unusually so, for a Universal disc. Nobody who's watched the new release, is happy with the disc and opinions vary on how much better than the old, in itself underwhelming Blu-Ray it is.

Next film in the Hitch Vol 3 set, The Man Who Knew Too Much. Not seen anything in depth about Topaz yet, especially in comparison to the BD.

I’m sure (people on the other forum as well) that the DNR and general American Graffiti processing is due to George Lucas. It’s been mentioned that Walter Murch once again tinkered with the 5.1 sound but no mention whether that track ended up on the disc. Nothing of Lucas though - Universal surely wanted to keep it quiet for obvious reasons. Despite the DNR, the first comparisons with the old BD show a mild improvement as additional processing on the BD has been removed in favor of “just” the DNR as it seems. I secretly wished that Lucas just told Universal that he doesn’t give a damn about the film any more. When looking at how positive the impressions are of the Hitchcock Vol. 3 restorations I’m sure they’d have given us a definitive presentation of the film had they been allowed.

[TBickle020776]

This is really disappointing to hear for American Graffiti. With the 4K edition having the same identical supplement features as the old bluray I was really hoping for a stellar video presentation in 4K. I don’t think I will be upgrading. I rather spend my money on releases that made an effort to warrant the upgrade.