UHD Titles Worth/Not Worth Upgrading [Archive]

[dwk]

Arrow almost always drops the extra disc from the limited editions when they release the standard editions, which is a really stupid policy.

[swo17]

So then is it Arrow LE > Criterion > Arrow SE, because having cuts in a revisionist ratio is better than not having them at all?

[tenia]

Yes, exactly.

[M-A]

The Arrow theatrical also includes the 70mm audio mix, which Is missing from the Criterion

[kekid]

I find all this rather confusing, and will appreciate if someone will clarify it for me.
All descriptions of discs are as printed on disc labels.
Arrow Limited Edition has two discs:
1. Theatrical version in UltraHD.
2. Extended version in Blu Ray.
Criteron has 3 discs:
1. Theatrical version in 4KUHD.
2. Theatrical version on Blu Ray.
3. Television version on Blu Ray.
Questions:
Does Arrow have Theatrical version on Blu Ray (non4K)? If so, which disc is it on? If not, that is something that gives Criterion some advantage for people who do not have 4K capability at this time.
Is "Extended version" on Arrow same as "Television version" on Criterion? (apart from OAR issues)
If " Extended version" on Arrow has the same content as "Television version" om Criterion, apart from the aspect ratio, what are the aspect ratios of the two? Does the difference arise from Criterion following Starraro's viewpoint, and Arrow ignoring it, or is it something else?
Thank you for clarifying this.

[yoloswegmaster]

Arrow has a standalone version of the theatrical cut on blu and 4K (though you can only get the 4K version from Amazon/Diabolik). The extended version is the same as the television version, with the extended version being in the original aspect ratio on the Arrow and Criterion having Storaro's 2.00:1 nonsense for whatever reason.

[ryannichols7]

and the Criterion one is next level lazy, as the TV version was never on the original Blu-ray at all. so they created a whole new disc, authored it, and whatever using the old master with the wrong AR. would've been perfect time to fix it!

Criterion's package is obviously pretty excellent in terms of extras, and I'm glad their transfer came out good, but they could've actually come out on top pretty strongly on this one. the TV version is more a curiosity anyway, but if you're gonna curiously check in, you should see it in the right AR

ultimately I don't think the Arrow LE is worth paying eBay prices for though, the Criterion is for sure the definitive edition now. but it could be even better!

[dwk]

They may have not been able to license the 2.35 master of the television cut. Going back to my joke about the television version should be 4X3, what was the actual aspect ratio that that cut was broadcast in?

[Lowry_Sam]

So the 3D version was only ever released as a solo blu-ray in Italy? I saw a listing for a German 4 disc set with only 1 UHD, but Im guessing the third disc is probably not the 3D or?

[kekid]

Arrow has a standalone version of the theatrical cut on blu and 4K (though you can only get the 4K version from Amazon/Diabolik).

How did this happen? Why did Amazon/Diabolik not issue the version with the Blu? Is it the rights issue?

[yoloswegmaster]

Arrow has a standalone version of the theatrical cut on blu and 4K (though you can only get the 4K version from Amazon/Diabolik).

How did this happen? Why did Amazon/Diabolik not issue the version with the Blu? Is it the rights issue?

You misunderstood me. The standard edition that Arrow released is not dual-format. There are 2 seperate releases, one 4K only and the other BD only. Both of these releases are for the theatrical version of the film. However, if you want to buy the 4K version, you will have to buy it from either Amazon or Diabolik since Arrow aren't selling it themselves for whatever reason. The BD only version is available on their site though, as well as on Amazon and Diabolik.

[ryannichols7]

They may have not been able to license the 2.35 master of the television cut. Going back to my joke about the television version should be 4X3, what was the actual aspect ratio that that cut was broadcast in?

fair point on all counts, but since Arrow did put out the TV cut in 2.35:1, I had assumed Criterion could do the same. couldn't answer that question

[dwk]

fair point on all counts, but since Arrow did put out the TV cut in 2.35:1, I had assumed Criterion could do the same. couldn't answer that question

I would've assumed so to. However, unless I'm mistaken, Arrow and the German label (Turbine?) collaborated on the masters. Maybe they asked more than Criterion was willing to pay for something that really isn't essential (does anyone prefer the longer version?)

[tenia]

They may have not been able to license the 2.35 master of the television cut. Going back to my joke about the television version should be 4X3, what was the actual aspect ratio that that cut was broadcast in?

I dont see why Criterion wouldn't have been able to get it while every single other re-release in the world that I know of and has it has it in 2.35.

[MichaelB]

I dont see why Criterion wouldn't have been able to get it while every single other re-release in the world that I know of and has it has it in 2.35.

Because they may have a specific contractual arrangement with Storaro, as they did with Michael Mann over Thief, which significantly circumscribed what they could do with that edition. Arrow deliberately didn't involve Mann when putting theirs together, and consequently had a lot more freedom (if less directorial authority).

Going back to my joke about the television version should be 4X3, what was the actual aspect ratio that that cut was broadcast in?

I'm very proud indeed of my rebuild of the trailer for The Missionary, which was derived from a pan-and-scan VHS copy, but in fact it's very unlikely that it would have been shown in 2.35:1 in cinemas for logistical reasons - 1.85:1 would have been far more likely. But I didn't have a reference for how it would have been cropped, and I certainly wasn't going to reproduce the hideous-looking 4:3 version, so I stuck to the film's OAR.

Amusingly, the guy who ripped it to YouTube is billing it as "original", which it absolutely isn't!

[tenia]

I'd suppose that if they have any agreement forcing them not to provide 2.35 for the movie, surely it'd affect the main presentation first, before the lower format of the alternative cut.

[nicolas]

Bob le Flambeur (KL) is a solid upgrade with an excellent encode due to the SDR master.
HD caps when logged in: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Bob-le-F ... creenshots

Based on this, I assume Le Doulos will be the same.

[nicolas]

Le Doulos is as solid as Bob Le Flambeur: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Le-Doulo ... creenshots

[Finch]

Regarding Last Emperor: so, Criterion were possibly saddled with the wrong ratio on the TV cut for contractual reasons and we shouldn't penalize Arrow for dropping the correctly framed TV edit from their regular release. If you slept on it, that's on you. Every label operating the limited edition model incentivizes it one way or another.

MA, does the regular Arrow edition still have the 70mm audio mix?

In all honesty I think the Storaro ratio is so awful that it if this was the only choice Criterion had, it almost negates the benefit of having the TV cut at all. Even if you happen to like this cut better, you're still stuck with a compromised version as offered by Criterion.

Does anyone think the Criterion adds anything among their extras that elevates it above the Arrow (limited and regular alike)? Arrow have some exclusive extras themselves but quantitatively Criterion's release comes out ahead. Is more better in this case?

[ryannichols7]

I can't speak to the TV cut stuff cause we really are speculating, I just genuinely don't think hardly anyone enjoys that version more. I haven't seen the Arrow extras (and I like David Cairns a lot), but I will say that Arrow and Criterion overlap titles usually have very little overlap in extras, which makes it incredibly easy to have each edition - I've done this for Fear and Loathing, Time Bandits, and will for Silence of the Lambs. usually it's Criterion BD, Arrow UHD but Fear and Loathing was the one exception so far, especially given that Arrow dropped some extras from their UHD. but otherwise I'm personally in for having both - Criterion usually have a more filmmaker focus and Arrow is more on scholarly stuff, but sometimes this varies. in the case of The Last Emperor, it's clear, and I will say I remember Criterion's extras to be pretty solid production stuff, but it's been awhile

[kekid]

Regarding Last Emperor: so, Criterion were possibly saddled with the wrong ratio on the TV cut for contractual reasons and we shouldn't penalize Arrow for dropping the correctly framed TV edit from their regular release. If you slept on it, that's on you. Every label operating the limited edition model incentivizes it one way or another.

I got the Arrow Special Edition from Diabolik. It has two discs (no Blu Ray), and between them it has no extras. The extras are all on the Blu Ray, which was not part of this Limited Edition. At least as a US customer put in this position I don't see how Arrow can be ranked higher than Criterion.

[tenia]

I'm surprised by your detail of this release. It should be a UHD of the theatrical cut, and a BD of the TV cut, with the extra features on the UHD. The later SE only has the UHD of the TC, with the extra features on it.

[dwk]

Here are the extras breakdown for The Last Emperor
Arrow
First to Last: The Road to the Forbidden City" 2022 visual essay by film critic David Cairns (19:54)
"Open the Door" 2022 visual essay by film critics David Cairns & Fiona Watson (23:02)
Archive Interviews from 1987 [SD 1080i/60]
- director Bernardo Bertolucci (8:19)
- actor John Lone (8:34)
- actor Joan Chen (9:14)
"Postcard from China" video footage (7:40) [SD 1080i/60, in Italian, with optional English subtitles]
Theatrical Trailer (2:35)
Stills Gallery (13 images)

Criterion:
Audio Commentary by director Bernardo Bertolucci, producer Jeremy Thomas, screenwriter Mark Peploe and composer/actor Ryuichi Sakamoto
"The Italian Traveler: Bernardo Bertolucci" documentary (53:03)
"Bernardo Bertolucci's Chinese Adventure" documentary (50:53)
"Making The Last Emperor" documentary (45:05)
"Postcards from China" featurette (with optional audio commentary by director Bernardo Bertolucci) (8:03)
"The Southbank Show" documentary (66:03)
"The Late Show: Face to Face" interview with director Bernardo Bertolucci (30:35)
Interview with composer David Byrne (25:05)
"Beyond the Forbidden City" interview with historian Ian Buruma (45:15)
Theatrical Trailer (2:35)

[kekid]

Here are the extras breakdown for The Last Emperor
Arrow
First to Last: The Road to the Forbidden City" 2022 visual essay by film critic David Cairns (19:54)
"Open the Door" 2022 visual essay by film critics David Cairns & Fiona Watson (23:02)
Archive Interviews from 1987 [SD 1080i/60]
- director Bernardo Bertolucci (8:19)
- actor John Lone (8:34)
- actor Joan Chen (9:14)
"Postcard from China" video footage (7:40) [SD 1080i/60, in Italian, with optional English subtitles]
Theatrical Trailer (2:35)
Stills Gallery (13 images)

Criterion:
Audio Commentary by director Bernardo Bertolucci, producer Jeremy Thomas, screenwriter Mark Peploe and composer/actor Ryuichi Sakamoto
"The Italian Traveler: Bernardo Bertolucci" documentary (53:03)
"Bernardo Bertolucci's Chinese Adventure" documentary (50:53)
"Making The Last Emperor" documentary (45:05)
"Postcards from China" featurette (with optional audio commentary by director Bernardo Bertolucci) (8:03)
"The Southbank Show" documentary (66:03)
"The Late Show: Face to Face" interview with director Bernardo Bertolucci (30:35)
Interview with composer David Byrne (25:05)
"Beyond the Forbidden City" interview with historian Ian Buruma (45:15)
Theatrical Trailer (2:35)

Friends, thank you for responding to my unjustified post. I don't know why I thought there were no extras on the Arrow UHD. I guess I assumed that the extras are always left to the BD. But clearly I was wrong. I apologize to all affected.

[Finch]

Real Life and Mother added to OP as per Chris's reviews on the front page.

Last Emperor back to being tied between Arrow OOP LE and Criterion