Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Labyrinth had 3 Sony 4k US releases between 2016 and 2021 : 1 digibook, 1 steelbook, 1 standard.
Dark Crystal had 2 : one standard and one steelbook.
Dark Crystal had 2 : one standard and one steelbook.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Were those not like the other Sony steelbooks that had better transfers than the standard releases? I honestly cant remember. (Actually it really doesnt matter, because what is Shout supposed to do, not release these because Sony had already released them?)
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Oh they do what they want as they want. They'll most likely be good sellers anyway because the movies seem to be good sellers over the years anyway. But I understand that some will find these to be, how can I say, non-events because of that.
I'm also unsure how much Shout can compete with Sony in terms of extras, and it's extremely likely the discs are going to be the same masters but with lesser encodes (because Sony are systemically good, and Shout often mediocre).
Dark Crystal has 1 UHD disc, released in 2 releases. Labyrinth last release however indeed was a DV update/upgrade.
I'm also unsure how much Shout can compete with Sony in terms of extras, and it's extremely likely the discs are going to be the same masters but with lesser encodes (because Sony are systemically good, and Shout often mediocre).
Dark Crystal has 1 UHD disc, released in 2 releases. Labyrinth last release however indeed was a DV update/upgrade.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:34 am
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Geoff D at BR.com expects / hopes for the original audio track, Dolby Vision and some improvements in the master, although I don’t know what he means as I didn’t follow the debate and don’t own the film myself. Shout have DV included and, knowing Sony, their HDR grade was one of those 5.000 or 10.000 nits grades that are just excessively bright and DV brings that down to normal levels. The 2.0 included by Shout is not yet confirmed to be the original mix but they’ve recently started including LaserDisc mixes, so maybe they got this worked out.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 11:20 pmI figured as much, but the point still stands - are people expecting Shout! to really improve much on what already exists?
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Rest of the leaks:
Krampus (The Naughty Cut) 4K Steelbook
Golden Harvest Vol. 1: Supernatural Shockers
Born on the Fourth of July 4K
Bones and All 4K
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story 4K UHD
Rush 4K UHD
Escape From New York 4K Steelbook
Krampus (The Naughty Cut) 4K Steelbook
Golden Harvest Vol. 1: Supernatural Shockers
Born on the Fourth of July 4K
Bones and All 4K
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story 4K UHD
Rush 4K UHD
Escape From New York 4K Steelbook
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
With this and House of Gucci being released, there may be a chance of Licorice Pizza getting a 4K release.
-
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2024 9:52 am
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Dylan Cheung on Twitter identified the following movies from the cover of the Golden Harvest set:
Erotic Ghost Story 1-3
Robotrix
Doctor Vampire
Erotic Ghost Story 1-3
Robotrix
Doctor Vampire
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Specs for the Hush release include a black & white grade of the film on both 4K and the enclosed BD (it'll be a 4 disc release). The film got restored earlier this year.
Special Features and Technical Specs:
DISC ONE - 4K BLU-RAY: ORIGINAL VERSION
NEW 4K RESTORATION (2024) supervised and approved by Director Mike Flanagan
DOLBY VISION/HDR PRESENTATION OF THE FILM
NEW Audio Commentary with Mike Flanagan, Actor & Co-Writer Kate Siegel, and Actors Samantha Sloan, John Gallagher, Jr., and Michael Trucco.
Optional English subtitles for the main feature
DISC TWO - 4K BLU-RAY: "SHUSH CUT"
NEW 4K RESTORATION (2024) B&W "SHUSH CUT" supervised and approved by Mike Flanagan
NEW Audio Commentary with Mike Flanagan and Kate Siegel.
NEW 2024 "Shush Cut" Audio Mix.
Optional English subtitles for the main feature
DISC THREE - BLU-RAY: ORIGINAL VERSION & "SHUSH CUT"
NEW 4K RESTORATION (2024) supervised and approved by Director Mike Flanagan
NEW Audio Commentary with Mike Flanagan, Kate Siegel, Samantha Sloyan, John Gallagher, Jr., and Michael Trucco (Original Version).
NEW 2024 4K Restoration - B&W "Shush Cut" supervised and approved by Mike Flanagan
NEW Audio Commentary with Mike Flanagan and Kate Siegel ("Shush Cut")
NEW 2024 "Shush Cut" Audio Mix
Optional English subtitles for the main feature
DISC FOUR - BLU-RAY: SPECIAL FEATURES
NEW Feature-Length Picture-In-Picture Video Commentary with Mike Flanagan, Kate Siegel, Samantha Sloyan, John Gallagher, Jr., and Michael Trucco (Original Version).
NEW Interview with Samantha Sloyan.
NEW Interview with Kate Siegel.
NEW Interview with John Gallagher, Jr.
NEW Interview with Michael Trucco.
NEW Interview with Mike Flanagan.
NEW Interview with Producer Trevor Macy.
NEW Interview with Composers The Newton Brothers.
NEW Interview with Director of Photography James Kniest.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Shout getting in on that Imprint shit, offering Labyrinth in three different editions, one at $262, second one at $181, and the third one at $100 and Dark Crystal in three editions, $191, $120, and $100.
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Site exclusive (2500 copies):
Celebrate the legendary career of Hong Kong master of mirth and mayhem Stephen Chow (Shaolin Soccer, Kung Fu Hustle) with this four-film collection!
Selected from Chow's '90s prime, these films showcase the unique comedy & action stylings that made Chow an international star of the screen. Get ready for laughs, thrills, and appearances from a bevy of Hong Kong legends, including Maggie Cheung, Anita Mui, Bill Tung, and more!
LOOK OUT, OFFICER! (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 92 min.)
A murdered police inspector comes back from the dead to help a clever and crafty cop avenge his death. As the duo investigate the case, the comedic complications – as well as the thrills – multiply.
JUSTICE, MY FOOT! (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 99 min.)
This rollicking period farce set in Imperial China finds Chow as a shyster lawyer with an equally eccentric, kung-fu ace of a wife, hilariously played by the great Anita Mui (The Heroic Trio, Drunken Master II).
THE MAD MONK (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 89 min.)
When the arrogant god Dragon Fighter Lo Han (Chow) pushes his fellow deities too far, he is punished by being transformed into an animal and banished to Earth until he can change the fates of three ne'er-do-wells. Maggie Cheung (Irma Vep, Police Story) also stars in this heavenly fantasy.
OUT OF THE DARK (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 83 min.)
When supernatural events overwhelm a Hong Kong apartment building, and those guys in New York City won't answer your call, look no further than Stephen Chow! Our hero plays a most unlikely paranormal investigator who steps in to save the building's residents from their harrowing haunting.
Celebrate the legendary career of Hong Kong master of mirth and mayhem Stephen Chow (Shaolin Soccer, Kung Fu Hustle) with this four-film collection!
Selected from Chow's '90s prime, these films showcase the unique comedy & action stylings that made Chow an international star of the screen. Get ready for laughs, thrills, and appearances from a bevy of Hong Kong legends, including Maggie Cheung, Anita Mui, Bill Tung, and more!
LOOK OUT, OFFICER! (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 92 min.)
A murdered police inspector comes back from the dead to help a clever and crafty cop avenge his death. As the duo investigate the case, the comedic complications – as well as the thrills – multiply.
JUSTICE, MY FOOT! (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 99 min.)
This rollicking period farce set in Imperial China finds Chow as a shyster lawyer with an equally eccentric, kung-fu ace of a wife, hilariously played by the great Anita Mui (The Heroic Trio, Drunken Master II).
THE MAD MONK (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 89 min.)
When the arrogant god Dragon Fighter Lo Han (Chow) pushes his fellow deities too far, he is punished by being transformed into an animal and banished to Earth until he can change the fates of three ne'er-do-wells. Maggie Cheung (Irma Vep, Police Story) also stars in this heavenly fantasy.
OUT OF THE DARK (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 83 min.)
When supernatural events overwhelm a Hong Kong apartment building, and those guys in New York City won't answer your call, look no further than Stephen Chow! Our hero plays a most unlikely paranormal investigator who steps in to save the building's residents from their harrowing haunting.
Bonus Features for Blu-ray
DISC 1 Justice, My Foot!
NEW “Hong Kong Hustle: The Chinese Cinema Odyssey Of Stephen Chow” – A Feature Length Documentary Featuring Interviews With Writer Cheng Man-Fai, Producer Bill Borden, Actor Chu Ko, Eastern Heroes Editor Ricky Baker, Critic Frank Djeng And More!
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC 2 Look Out, Officer!
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC 3: The Mad Monk
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Audio Commentary With Frankie Balboa AKA Shogun Supreme & Peter Glagowski, Writer At FLIXIST
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC 4: Out Of The Dark
NEW “A Different Shade Of Dark” - Interview With Daniel O'Brien, Author Of Spooky Encounters - A Gwaillo's Guide To Hong Kong Horror
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
People who support this turn by actually buying single film editions that cost this much are ensuring this becomes the next stage of the home video market. I don’t understand how anyone could see this shit and not become radicalized against it, but somehow I doubt revolt will materialize
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
SpoilerShow
yoloswegmaster wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:32 amSite exclusive (2500 copies):
Celebrate the legendary career of Hong Kong master of mirth and mayhem Stephen Chow (Shaolin Soccer, Kung Fu Hustle) with this four-film collection!
Selected from Chow's '90s prime, these films showcase the unique comedy & action stylings that made Chow an international star of the screen. Get ready for laughs, thrills, and appearances from a bevy of Hong Kong legends, including Maggie Cheung, Anita Mui, Bill Tung, and more!
LOOK OUT, OFFICER! (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 92 min.)
A murdered police inspector comes back from the dead to help a clever and crafty cop avenge his death. As the duo investigate the case, the comedic complications – as well as the thrills – multiply.
JUSTICE, MY FOOT! (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 99 min.)
This rollicking period farce set in Imperial China finds Chow as a shyster lawyer with an equally eccentric, kung-fu ace of a wife, hilariously played by the great Anita Mui (The Heroic Trio, Drunken Master II).
THE MAD MONK (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 89 min.)
When the arrogant god Dragon Fighter Lo Han (Chow) pushes his fellow deities too far, he is punished by being transformed into an animal and banished to Earth until he can change the fates of three ne'er-do-wells. Maggie Cheung (Irma Vep, Police Story) also stars in this heavenly fantasy.
OUT OF THE DARK (1080p High-Definition Widescreen (1.85:1) / Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono / 83 min.)
When supernatural events overwhelm a Hong Kong apartment building, and those guys in New York City won't answer your call, look no further than Stephen Chow! Our hero plays a most unlikely paranormal investigator who steps in to save the building's residents from their harrowing haunting.
Bonus Features for Blu-ray
DISC 1 Justice, My Foot!
NEW “Hong Kong Hustle: The Chinese Cinema Odyssey Of Stephen Chow” – A Feature Length Documentary Featuring Interviews With Writer Cheng Man-Fai, Producer Bill Borden, Actor Chu Ko, Eastern Heroes Editor Ricky Baker, Critic Frank Djeng And More!
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC 2 Look Out, Officer!
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC 3: The Mad Monk
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Audio Commentary With Frankie Balboa AKA Shogun Supreme & Peter Glagowski, Writer At FLIXIST
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC 4: Out Of The Dark
NEW “A Different Shade Of Dark” - Interview With Daniel O'Brien, Author Of Spooky Encounters - A Gwaillo's Guide To Hong Kong Horror
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Optional English Subtitles Newly Translated For This Release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Celestial Trailer
Image Gallery
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
It is just going to help kill the physical media market faster.domino harvey wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:35 amPeople who support this turn by actually buying single film editions that cost this much are ensuring this becomes the next stage of the home video market. I don’t understand how anyone could see this shit and not become radicalized against it, but somehow I doubt revolt will materialize
VS would have probably been a limited edition as well, but at least it would have been 4000 copies instead of 2500.yoloswegmaster wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:35 amFrankly a shame that Shout got the rights to these and not someone like Arrow or VS. At least they would have given these films a new restoration and not make it a limited edition store exclusive.
Anyway, here is the Golden Harvest set
DISC ONE: SEX AND ZEN (1991)
Audio: Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono, Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 Surround, English DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 Surround
NEW Optional English Subtitles, Newly Translated For This Release
NEW Audio Commentary With Hong Kong Filmmaker And Academic Gilbert Po And Critic Sean Tierney
NEW Interview With Academic And Filmmaker Chen Yu-Lin
Interview With Director Michael Mak
Original Theatrical Trailer
Fortune Star Home Video Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC TWO: EROTIC GHOST STORY (1990)
Original Cantonese Cut (89 Minutes) Audio: Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono, English DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
Alternate Mandarin Cut (95 Minutes) Audio: Mandarin DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
NEW Audio Commentary With Hong Kong Filmmaker And Academic Gilbert Po And Critic Sean Tierney
NEW Audio Commentary With Category III Enthusiast James Mudge
NEW Interview With Frank Djeng Of The New York Asian Film Festival
NEW Optional English Subtitles, Newly Translated For This release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Tai Seng Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC THREE: EROTIC GHOST STORY II (1991)
Audio: Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
NEW Audio Commentary With Hong Kong Filmmaker And Academic Gilbert Po And Critic Sean Tierney
NEW Interview With Actor Anthony Wong
NEW Optional English Subtitles, Newly Translated For This release
Original Theatrical Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC FOUR: EROTIC GHOST STORY III (1992)
Original Hong Kong Cat. III Cut (96 Minutes) Audio: Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
Alternate Mandarin Cut (77 Minutes) Audio: Mandarin DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
NEW Optional English Subtitles, Newly Translated For This release
NEW Audio Commentary With Hong Kong Filmmaker And Academic Gilbert Po And Critic Sean Tierney
NEW Interview With Category III Enthusiast James Mudge
Original Theatrical Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC FIVE: DOCTOR VAMPIRE (1990)
Audio: Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono, Mandarin DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
NEW Optional English Subtitles, Newly Translated For This Release
NEW Audio Commentary With James Mudge, Veteran Hong Kong Film Critic At easternKicks
NEW Interview With Actor Peter Kjær
NEW Interview With Critic Sean Tierney
NEW Interview With Academic Gilbert Po
Original Theatrical Trailer
Image Gallery
DISC SIX: ROBOTRIX (1991)
Audio: Cantonese DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono, English DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 Dual Mono
NEW Optional English Subtitles, Newly Translated For This Release
NEW Audio Commentary With Calum Waddell, Producer Of Category III: The Untold Story of Hong Kong Exploitation Cinema, And Hong Kong Film Enthusiast Andrew Fleming
NEW Interview With Actor Vincent Lyn
Deleted/Alternate Scenes
English Title Sequence
Original Theatrical Trailer
English Language Trailer
Image Gallery
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- Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Damn, Robotrix is a big one for me
-
- Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:07 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
yoloswegmaster wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:32 amRest of the leaks:
Krampus (The Naughty Cut) 4K Steelbook
Golden Harvest Vol. 1: Supernatural Shockers
Born on the Fourth of July 4K
Bones and All 4K
Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story 4K UHD
Rush 4K UHD
Escape From New York 4K Steelbook
Rush is presumably the Ron Howard film and not the extremely underrated 1991 Jennifer Jason Leigh vehicle?
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
A typo for Hush, no?
EDIT: No, apparently not. It’s the Ron Howard film
EDIT: No, apparently not. It’s the Ron Howard film
- ryannichols7
- Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:26 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
genuinely hope the UK labels don't buy into this Imprint/Shout nonsense of $100+ for a single film release. I don't mind paying up here and there for a good deluxe edition, especially if it's a movie with multiple cuts and tons of extras, but this absurdist collector nonsense is ridiculous. the fact that both of the movies used for this so far are 80s nostalgia trips isn't comforting!
Arrow have done gimmick stuff before but I hope they have more integrity ..they do the single film hard box with slip stuff well (American Gigolo, Carrie, Silence of the Lambs) but it really and truly doesn't need to go beyond that
Arrow have done gimmick stuff before but I hope they have more integrity ..they do the single film hard box with slip stuff well (American Gigolo, Carrie, Silence of the Lambs) but it really and truly doesn't need to go beyond that
- swo17
- Bloodthirsty Butcher
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:25 am
- Location: SLC, UT
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Arrow did lavish single-film releases for A Trip to the Moon and The Game but a) the focus was on writing, and b) they still cost far less than this
- Mr Sausage
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
Surprised the Golden Harvest set is mostly CAT III sexploitation films.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
I love extra tat editions but only when I look at the price and can kinda decompose it into pieces that make sense. Here, I see a $60 coloring book and $50-70 pin's set : nobody with a sane mind is going to find these sets are fairly priced.domino harvey wrote:People who support this turn by actually buying single film editions that cost this much are ensuring this becomes the next stage of the home video market. I don’t understand how anyone could see this shit and not become radicalized against it, but somehow I doubt revolt will materialize
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
The Golden Harvest and Stephen Chow titles could be covered by 88 and Eureka respectively, as Eureka already did single releases of some of Shout's Sonny Chiba films.
Those Legend and Dark Crystal prices would be obscene at half the price. Hopefully this doesn't become a trend.
Those Legend and Dark Crystal prices would be obscene at half the price. Hopefully this doesn't become a trend.
- domino harvey
- Dot Com Dom
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
I am relieved that when I checked earlier, this was largely being derided by the Blu-ray.com forum. Those guys are the literal market audience for this crap, and the reason we are here now, but I am all for them attempting a redemption arc
- TechnicolorAcid
- Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:43 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
For how much these both cost I better be having Jim Henson rise from his grave and perform a puppet show for me with David Bowie as the guest performer. Ridiculous.
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Shout! Factory / Scream Factory
That forum doesn't really love Shout/Scream in the way that they love Arrow or Vinegar Syndrome. So I image the reaction would be much more positive if something was getting similar treatment from either of those two companies.domino harvey wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 3:22 pmI am relieved that when I checked earlier, this was largely being derided by the Blu-ray.com forum. Those guys are the literal market audience for this crap, and the reason we are here now, but I am all for them attempting a redemption arc