Seven Samurai
Moderator: MichaelB
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- Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:34 am
Re: Seven Samurai
The BFI eagle has landed…
For the record, FiM is credited in the booklet, HDR/DV on disc, BD-100 and DTS-HD 1.0 audio at 0.8 Mbps.
I have the Toho UHD as well which is a BD-100, SDR and has PCM 2.0 mono and 2.0 surround audio.
The Toho UHD presents the master heavily filtered in addition to compression, so the difference to the BFI and Criterion 4Ks (judging from fkid’s caps) is enormous. BFI also restored all the grain and detail Toho wiped away. It looks fantastic, although the grain tends to ebb and flow a bit in a couple of static sequences - not a problem of the encode but the master was definitely worked on ever so slightly but thanks to these two 4Ks it’s hardly bothersome.
BFI’s HDR/DV grade is very subtle, nuanced and gently enhances the image rather than doing anything drastically altering. Of course, the SDR presentation is also just fine and suitable on its own as I’ve compared among the releases I own, including the Criterion BD.
Caps will likely reveal which edition has more nuances in highlights but don’t expect anything revelatory (between BFI and Criterion). Regarding more dirt and damage cleanup: The BFI looks good to me but tram lines and the occasional marks are definitely there. Static scenes are generally less busy whereas rapidly edited shots and camera movements show quite a bit of damage.
However, unfortunately I have to bring bad news when it comes to audio. If you know my posts, I’m often stating that I’m not the biggest pro when it comes to audio, so I can only observe what I’m listening to. The Criterion BD’s track is the worst I’ve heard, slightly better is the BFI 4K’s, but it’s almost as muted, filtered and anemic as Criterion’s. Finally, the best of the bunch is an *excellent* dual mono track on the Toho UHD and an interesting surround mix that considerably widens the soundscape but I’m not confident in stating whether this is original or a remix and whether it’s done well.
I wish I knew whether the excellent mix shown by blah-ray (https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/search/la ... 954%29?m=0) is on the Toho UHD. Just as I looked at his article, I’ve seen that this great mix was/is actually available via BFI player, so it seems fair to assume that this mix would’ve been in the purview of BFI’s disc producers unless their streaming and disc operations are all separated or legal matters stood in the way.
Subtitles: Take this with a grain of salt as I only sampled the discs today and am no expert in the different translations and what’s more correct but brace for disappointment re. BFI’s subs. Most of the time, punctuation is missing (question marks and … are there) and I’ve seen at least one instance where a comma was omitted. Please point me to specific lines and approximate time stamps if you want me to check translations but yeah, I don’t think these will satisfy many.
Right now, an imaginary best edition would likely be comprised of the BFI (or Criterion depending on damage cleanup) for video, Toho 4K audio and Criterion subs.
The Jokers also have a 4K of the film out soon in France but obviously without English subs.
For the record, FiM is credited in the booklet, HDR/DV on disc, BD-100 and DTS-HD 1.0 audio at 0.8 Mbps.
I have the Toho UHD as well which is a BD-100, SDR and has PCM 2.0 mono and 2.0 surround audio.
The Toho UHD presents the master heavily filtered in addition to compression, so the difference to the BFI and Criterion 4Ks (judging from fkid’s caps) is enormous. BFI also restored all the grain and detail Toho wiped away. It looks fantastic, although the grain tends to ebb and flow a bit in a couple of static sequences - not a problem of the encode but the master was definitely worked on ever so slightly but thanks to these two 4Ks it’s hardly bothersome.
BFI’s HDR/DV grade is very subtle, nuanced and gently enhances the image rather than doing anything drastically altering. Of course, the SDR presentation is also just fine and suitable on its own as I’ve compared among the releases I own, including the Criterion BD.
Caps will likely reveal which edition has more nuances in highlights but don’t expect anything revelatory (between BFI and Criterion). Regarding more dirt and damage cleanup: The BFI looks good to me but tram lines and the occasional marks are definitely there. Static scenes are generally less busy whereas rapidly edited shots and camera movements show quite a bit of damage.
However, unfortunately I have to bring bad news when it comes to audio. If you know my posts, I’m often stating that I’m not the biggest pro when it comes to audio, so I can only observe what I’m listening to. The Criterion BD’s track is the worst I’ve heard, slightly better is the BFI 4K’s, but it’s almost as muted, filtered and anemic as Criterion’s. Finally, the best of the bunch is an *excellent* dual mono track on the Toho UHD and an interesting surround mix that considerably widens the soundscape but I’m not confident in stating whether this is original or a remix and whether it’s done well.
I wish I knew whether the excellent mix shown by blah-ray (https://blah-ray.blogspot.com/search/la ... 954%29?m=0) is on the Toho UHD. Just as I looked at his article, I’ve seen that this great mix was/is actually available via BFI player, so it seems fair to assume that this mix would’ve been in the purview of BFI’s disc producers unless their streaming and disc operations are all separated or legal matters stood in the way.
Subtitles: Take this with a grain of salt as I only sampled the discs today and am no expert in the different translations and what’s more correct but brace for disappointment re. BFI’s subs. Most of the time, punctuation is missing (question marks and … are there) and I’ve seen at least one instance where a comma was omitted. Please point me to specific lines and approximate time stamps if you want me to check translations but yeah, I don’t think these will satisfy many.
Right now, an imaginary best edition would likely be comprised of the BFI (or Criterion depending on damage cleanup) for video, Toho 4K audio and Criterion subs.
The Jokers also have a 4K of the film out soon in France but obviously without English subs.
Last edited by nicolas on Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
- tenia
- Ask Me About My Bassoon
- Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:13 am
Re: Seven Samurai
I do hope these aren't too numerous, because that'd be disappointing. Also : I hate the lack of punctuation. A few French subtitles houses do that, it really looks bad to read (to me).nicolas wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:46 amSubtitles: Take this with a grain of salt as I only sampled the discs today and am no expert in the different translations and what’s more correct but brace for disappointment re. BFI’s subs. Most of the time, punctuation is missing (question marks and … are there) and I’ve seen at least one instance where a comma was omitted. Please point me to specific lines and approximate time stamps if you want me to check translations but yeah, I don’t think these will satisfy many.
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Seven Samurai
Disappointing to hear about the subs. I'll see if Orbit will swap my BFI order for the Criterion.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:34 am
Re: Seven Samurai
I’m afraid they’re numerous. I also don’t like this at all, besides interrupting reading flow, it evokes sloppy working.tenia wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:21 amI do hope these aren't too numerous, because that'd be disappointing. Also : I hate the lack of punctuation. A few French subtitles houses do that, it really looks bad to read (to me).nicolas wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:46 amSubtitles: Take this with a grain of salt as I only sampled the discs today and am no expert in the different translations and what’s more correct but brace for disappointment re. BFI’s subs. Most of the time, punctuation is missing (question marks and … are there) and I’ve seen at least one instance where a comma was omitted. Please point me to specific lines and approximate time stamps if you want me to check translations but yeah, I don’t think these will satisfy many.
- yoloswegmaster
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:57 pm
Re: Seven Samurai
Is the audio track on the BFI 4K the same as the Criterion 4K?
EDIT: nevermind, it looks like you don't have the Criterion release
EDIT: nevermind, it looks like you don't have the Criterion release
- Finch
- Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
Re: Seven Samurai
Now I'm glad I hadn't preordered Stray Dog yet. Those subs are a deal breaker.
- EddieLarkin
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:25 am
Re: Seven Samurai
You'd think the BFI would know to be wary of audio coming from the Japanese studios following the Ozu release they added a secondary track to. Just check blah-ray for the craic and go from there, it ain't hard.
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- Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2023 11:34 am
Re: Seven Samurai
Strangely, subtitles on the extra disc are better. I briefly checked the Oshima-Kurosawa interview and it has proper punctuation.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Seven Samurai
That's a shame about the subs, especially with the delayed street date. I thought BFI were typically very careful about their subtitle work? Do they have a track history of correcting their errors and offering replacement discs in situations like these?
- dwk
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:10 pm
Re: Seven Samurai
It sounds like Toho did most of the heavy filtering for their disc and not at the restoration stage?nicolas wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 7:46 amThe Toho UHD presents the master heavily filtered in addition to compression, so the difference to the BFI and Criterion 4Ks (judging from fkid’s caps) is enormous. BFI also restored all the grain and detail Toho wiped away. It looks fantastic, although the grain tends to ebb and flow a bit in a couple of static sequences - not a problem of the encode but the master was definitely worked on ever so slightly but thanks to these two 4Ks it’s hardly bothersome.