Indications of Incoming Indicator Entertainments

[Stefan Andersson]

Further re: Indicator and overlooked British films - a Terry-Thomas box set, perhaps? With Eric Sykes-related extras?

Kill and Cure - tied up with MGM/Amazon?
A Matter of Who - same?
Operation Snatch
His and Hers
Make Mine Mink
The Wild Affair

I´m guessing most of T-T´s Fifties films (Too Many Crooks, several Boulting Bros. titles, for example) is with Studio Canal. I´m not familiar with T-T´s TV work -- Lord Arthur Savile´s Crime seems interesting (excellent cast) is with ITV, I presume.

[What A Disgrace]

It would be nice if Indicator released more BFI-only titles in the USA, particularly if they improve on the releases with new transfers, or even just extras (they way they did Requiem for a Village). It's been a decade or so, I'd gladly double dip on the Bill Douglas films, for instance.

[MichaelB]

Further re: Indicator and overlooked British films - a Terry-Thomas box set, perhaps? With Eric Sykes-related extras?

There are no indications that this is an incoming Indicator entertainment, which is the purpose of this thread.

[domino harvey]

I don’t see anything wrong with speculating on a future release in the future release speculation thread. I’m the one who named this thread, btw, so let me assure all that it can be used for this purpose as well

[ryannichols7]

The newsletter clue was identified on the other forum to be for Peter Ibbetson.

Thank god I was just about to order it from Kino.

someone on the Indicator Facebook posted a pic from a leaflet (I'm guessing that came with sale orders, and since I haven't received mine yet...) that shows the cover art for this title amongst a bunch of already announced titles. so it should be announced quite soon

[domino harvey]

With this month’s announcements pulling two of the four titles from Columbia’s Joan Crawford in the 50s box set, I imagine we will eventually also get the Aldrich film from that set, Autumn Leaves (and probably not Esther Costello… but I wouldn’t have expected Queen Bee either, so who knows)

[Finch]

Still hoping for Man's Castle to be among the Sony titles they managed to get!

[ryannichols7]

it does seem very clear that the Sony titles have a very strict mandate as has already been discussed. two "classic Hollywood" months in a row from Indicator seems rather surprising but it adds up with what we've heard. either way, pleased!

there is a new Indicator Cast with Sam and John. I haven't gotten to listen to it but aim to tonight. if anyone beats me to it and summarizes anything they say, go for it, but I will aim to do that if it's not done by the time I listen

anyway my sale order arrived today, excited to "catch up" with what's been going on in Indicator land for the last year, give or take a few titles I already grabbed

[ryannichols7]

(edit: wow didn't realize this ended up being so long, if any mod thinks this should be spoilered, go for it)

as promised - sorry for back to back posts but it was a very big Indicator day between the announcements, my package arriving, and listening to the podcast. I summarized it as best I could and will bold titles (like I always do) or general hints and such if you wanna thumb this through - I am absolutely never a podcast listener but I always tune in to these. so I write this for those who don't have time to listen (usually I'd rather be watching a film too myself) or just want a drive by snapshot. if anyone on other forums (I was stunned BR didn't already have a summary) wants to use this post be my guest, I would've written this stuff out anyway. props to peacock who did this last time (I believe) so I modeled my post similarly. last thing, if I reference "the group" it's the Indicator Facebook group where this podcast (I believe) started, and where they took questions from. MichaelB, Sam, and John I have seen in the group, so they definitely read it.

- Jim Mulvhill contributed this time! love his group posts. he is a devoted fan and writes great stuff every time he watches a release. honestly one of their best promoters.
- sales more successful than ever of course; they're amused by the hauls and pleased to see new faces in the groups, which as alluded to above, they do read.
- Michael J. Murphy seems to give them PTSD, definitely seems like their most stressful release and they said 2024 was really good for them in terms of getting titles out on time and not dealing with delays, something that was noticable
- Mexican titles have been very fruitful of course as discussed last time. apparently Sam Dunn's brainchild
- switched to a supplier in Germany and are pretty pleased with the pressing plant and turnaround times
- more about Mexico. the producer of all the editions, Nora Mehenni got showered with lots of praise, ditto Abraham Castillo Flores, who contributes a lot. talking about how Mexican cinema's close tie with Hollywood. Jim talked about picking up all the releases based on the trust in the label, and we were rewarded with a great product - I agree with that entirely.
- on the horizon, talks about "lots" of classic Hollywood, lesser British gems, still working through Rollin
- working with different licensors with Mexican cinema and more titles coming, especially from Alameda
- ozploitation is indeed coming, the much hinted at Turkey Shoot is still coming. called Snapshot and Patrick "successful". four more titles coming, restored by Powerhouse. "other opportunities for Australian cinema", so maybe not ozploitation?
- Guest House Paradiso an "odd title" where the demand blew away expectations. most LEs are just 3,000 and boxes are 6,000 of course but that one surprisingly did more. August was a busy month with that and Confessions
- more demand for stuff like Adventures/Confessions, especially with Network gone. an avenue for Indicator to explore more 70s British comedies
- talking about UHD. weighing titles to put on it. slight allusion to upcoming early 60s British B-movies? possibly? excited about The Escapees as they cite it as one of the more obscure Rollin titles
- 4K numbers continue to be very strong for them. the US has a much stronger ratio of 4K sales. they are looking into putting more on 4K and with new deals they're looking into getting 4K specific sales alongside BD. "proven it's worth" as a format.
- Bruiser - sold well, good feedback. they know people know it's not necessarily the best Romero but it's important for the filmography. they held on to it for UHD. James Blackford who does Rollin did this release too and he did the interview with Romero cause he knows his stuff. they were pleased to release it on 4K.
- they are surprised by the amount of people that have converted over to 4K. have watched the BDs and said "oh there's an issue" and then clicked over to the UHD and it's clearly a BD issue. another hint at "key" and "obscure" British on the format. hopes eventually they will reach a point they can release everything on 4K as they want to avoid upgrades and having stuff in 4K from the get go. they know other labels have this practice and they don't want to annoy the consumer
- Jim asking about wanting more noir. there are more Columbia owned noir titles coming. British productions! possibly confirms Columbia Noir #7 but with a British angle with a 50/60/70s range. Jim asked if they were some titles that are apparently being shown on UK TV, but Sam/John were not sure what's on TV and can't answer whether they're the same. Sony has given the masters and "quite a number of titles" to work with. very exciting and for me personally, my favorite piece of news from the whole podcast.
- more Hammer "coming down the line", "not a huge amount" but apparently in the spring. Hammer is doing more of their own thing with restorations and stuff, which they're excited for. so the Indicator Hammer angle is gonna be not horror and a different spin, more in line with the Robin Hood. wanting to tell more of the story of the studio's history. joked about sexploitation Hammer and other styles
- asked if they'd ever consider television. "we wouldn't say no" but not particularly in the plans at the moment. they aren't against it. they see Imprint's success with ITV. referencing Ghost Stories, Play for Today BFI editions.
- group asked about a potential Isabel Sarli set? Argentinian sexploitation. more actor sets not something they'd rule out. Dietrich and West both "did well" (interesting given West didn't sell out). talking about different ideas for boxes with Mexico too. no plans for Argentina for now. I could tell Sarli wasn't something they particularly explored
- Ishtar mention brought more PTSD. they were clearly so proud of the edition they made. "some politics" they weren't told about until the end. asked if the extras could be released separately on the site...they kinda dance around the answer but then John says very authoritatively "we should do it". so it would be cool - they seem they may be interested in doing it, no copyright involved. contributor paid already! so why not release! also another exciting piece of news.
- Dracula '79 once again asked about. painful reactions. "it might not happen, and maybe we can revisit that next year"
- California Split was definitively music rights. legal/costly/complicated. joking about a GoFundMe to help cover the cost. John very impressed about Vinegar Syndrome releasing Looking for Mr. Goodbar
- talked about Untouched being US only - philosophically they only want to release films uncut, so they are happy to do US only release for this reason. they don't think releasing something that would have to be rather compromised would be worth it.
- "definitely" more Santo films coming. Jim praises the Santo doc and Viviana, indeed something I loved too. she's going to be part of more of the releases. more of the Calderon production history is forthcoming with future titles.
- sales numbers are increasing in the US. would love to do all titles in both regions but won't happen. a couple Studiocanal titles they know people are disappointed about being US only. again mention UHD sales doing very well in the US. mentioned good relationship with Diabolik
- asking if Indicator can do what Radiance does with the "failed licenses". Sony and Studiocanal both good relationships. with Sony, the ask is always big, they asked for all Capras, even back to the silents. they wanted to do a huge Capra set or at least a couple, but of course Sony is doing it themselves. Studiocanal Hammers they wanted to do but Network or SC wanted to do themselves.
- more 30s/40s American titles. of course they will keep doing, just the only issue is they're studios and depends how the conversation will go. "things have changed" with Sony specifically. worried Universal and Warner will do the same. 5-6 years ago they had way more catalogs available. has impacted but as they shift more to independent studios, it does balance out. this part does seem sad. some studios don't want Indicator to do extras anymore...won't name names. obviously a huge part of the label and they won't compromise on that. obviously more talk about Disney.
- they wanted to get You & Me for a long time. "there's the appetite, but it's whether circumstances allow it to be fruitful"
- John asks about Australia and state of market. talking about JB Hi-Fi taking out physical media when there's duplicative stores. Imprint and Umbrella both doing well in spite of this.
- "a lot more to come" in terms of variety.
- John's favorite release of 2024? most proud? Confessions. had a blast with Robin Askwith
- Sam - he says Tod Slaughter, though what year was that? anyway they were proud cause it's a forgotten British thing so fits the mission of the label
- John does correct Sam on what year Slaughter came. so he says Mexican titles - Vampiro mentioned, good cause it wasn't mentioned at all, nor was Columbia Horror. Sam knows Rollin has been put out a lot on home media but is glad they're "definitive" now with Indicator editions and coming back uncut. "really robustly" telling the story of Rollin and his troupe.
- more Rene Cardona "in all likelihood". pretty heavy allusions
- "more interesting and fresh" kinds of titles coming through, and they are looking for them to come to UHD. sounds like different deals from what they have now. "some stuff that you possibly couldn't have predicted", good curveball to end.

I find it genuinely strange Indicator has never pursued an MGM deal, seeing as MGM seem pretty okay with licensing out in the UK. here's hoping UK Paramount play ball too, while Arrow would of course port plenty of their own titles, I think Indicator could knock a ton out of the park too. honestly this podcast was a lot more tight lipped and dour than previous ones even though they say sales and numbers are promising - I think it's just that general idea there's a lot they want to touch on that is becoming increasingly out of reach for them, something very unfortunate of course. here is to more excitement from this label soon!

[MichaelB]

if I reference "the group" it's the Indicator Facebook group where this podcast (I believe) started, and where they took questions from. MichaelB, Sam, and John I have seen in the group, so they definitely read it.

Unless he sneakily posts under a pseudonym, Sam doesn't post in the group - in fact, he shuns social media in general. Probably wisely.

But John does read the group, and I'm an active participant.

- Michael J. Murphy seems to give them PTSD, definitely seems like their most stressful release

No question! I can probably admit this now, but I was horrified when the original pre-Halloween 2022 release date was announced, as I knew even then that there was just no way we'd make it without drastically cutting corners. The problem with the Murphy project, on top of its sheer scale (ten crammed discs), was that it presented us with unique technical challenges - there were no usable Blu-ray quality masters so we had to create everything ourselves, and the older films in particular often suffered from missing segments; Murphy would blithely cut bits out of the original 16mm reversal footage (there was never any negative) to use in compilations. Fortunately, we had copies of these compilations (projected onto a wall and filmed at an angle by a VHS camcorder or similar), so were able to reinstate those clips (albeit at abysmal quality) - but working out where they should go with no reference material was another challenge! The first Tristan film in particular was guesswork-a-go-go, although by the same token there was nobody who could reliably tell us that we were wrong. (This is why I urge people not to watch the films in strict chronological order; that film only really works if you've seen his two other Tristan films, as you can mentally fill in what we assume are still substantial gaps.)

"PTSD" is probably putting it a tad strongly, as we're all very proud indeed of the finished product (although, to be fair, I wasn't involved with the financial side, so I can readily understand a PTSD element there!), but I reckon I personally put in the equivalent of six months' normal-hours full-time work on it, and of course I had other projects to juggle at the same time. Although one considerable bonus was that I was able to (legitimately) charge so much for the subtitling - which all had to be done by ear; i.e. the most expensive kind - that I was able to kit my office out with a proper Dolby Vision-compatible LG OLED 4K screen, which I needed to buy anyway as Indicator were imminently moving into UHD.

- Ishtar mention brought more PTSD. they were clearly so proud of the edition they made. "some politics" they weren't told about until the end. asked if the extras could be released separately on the site...they kinda dance around the answer but then John says very authoritatively "we should do it". so it would be cool - they seem they may be interested in doing it, no copyright involved. contributor paid already! so why not release! also another exciting piece of news.

As Sam said, we'd have to assess the copyright situation - anything incorporating Sony material would be an absolute no-no as they'd never sanction it and we have to take our ongoing relationship with them into account (this is also why the BFI is absolutely scrupulous about dotting and crossing every I and T, because their entire operation depends on maintaining good relationships with rightsholders). So it may be that things have to be re-edited - for instance, if the commentary is released, we'd have to remove the film audio. But we were very very pleased with that disc - which, as Sam said, got to the fully-authored QC stage (in fact, it was mere days away from being sent out as review checkdiscs) - so I'd very much welcome the chance to circulate some of what we'd put together for it.

- talked about Untouched being US only - philosophically they only want to release films uncut, so they are happy to do US only release for this reason. they don't think releasing something that would have to be rather compromised would be worth it.

Yes, I think they made absolutely the right decision. To be fair to the BBFC, their hands were legally tied by the 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act, but there was no wiggle room - the contentious shot was clearly (and notoriously) carried out for real, specifically for the purposes of making the film, so neither of the Animals Act's loopholes would have applied, so it would have had to come out.

But thus far the BBFC has waved through everything we've submitted in connection with the Rollin project, including a genuinely startling decision on an unambiguously hardcore extra in The Night of the Hunted. And we're over the two big hurdles - The Demoniacs and Requiem for a Vampire, both of which were substantially scissored back in the 1990s.

- sales numbers are increasing in the US. would love to do all titles in both regions but won't happen. a couple Studiocanal titles they know people are disappointed about being US only.

I suspect it's as much because they're Region A as because they're US-only! The problem here is that StudioCanal clearly wants to keep the UK rights for themselves - which we can't argue with; it's their films and their rules - so it's a blunt choice between not releasing them at all or only releasing them in the US (and region-locked). I greatly enjoyed working on both Left, Right and Centre and Family Life (to both of which I made unusually large contributions; my role on Indicator projects usually involves editing/mixing other people's stuff), so I'd be sorry if the choice was "not releasing them at all", but I do completely understand people's frustration.

And thus far Sony and Universal have only licensed titles for the UK only - and standard high definition rights, not UHD. StudioCanal is the only major that's sanctioned UHD releases thus far, with Bruiser. Although I suspect we could have done Impossible Object as UHD too, given the 4K HDR master, but it would have been, to say the least, financially courageous!

[Peacock]

Thank you Ryan for the detailed summary, and thank you Michael for the transparent insight into how things work behind the scenes.

[Matt]

Yes, thank you Ryan and Michael. I can't stand listening to most podcasts, no matter how interested I am in the content, so I always appreciate these kinds of summaries.

[ryannichols7]

SpoilerShow

if I reference "the group" it's the Indicator Facebook group where this podcast (I believe) started, and where they took questions from. MichaelB, Sam, and John I have seen in the group, so they definitely read it.

Unless he sneakily posts under a pseudonym, Sam doesn't post in the group - in fact, he shuns social media in general. Probably wisely.

But John does read the group, and I'm an active participant.

- Michael J. Murphy seems to give them PTSD, definitely seems like their most stressful release

No question! I can probably admit this now, but I was horrified when the original pre-Halloween 2022 release date was announced, as I knew even then that there was just no way we'd make it without drastically cutting corners. The problem with the Murphy project, on top of its sheer scale (ten crammed discs), was that it presented us with unique technical challenges - there were no usable Blu-ray quality masters so we had to create everything ourselves, and the older films in particular often suffered from missing segments; Murphy would blithely cut bits out of the original 16mm reversal footage (there was never any negative) to use in compilations. Fortunately, we had copies of these compilations (projected onto a wall and filmed at an angle by a VHS camcorder or similar), so were able to reinstate those clips (albeit at abysmal quality) - but working out where they should go with no reference material was another challenge! The first Tristan film in particular was guesswork-a-go-go, although by the same token there was nobody who could reliably tell us that we were wrong. (This is why I urge people not to watch the films in strict chronological order; that film only really works if you've seen his two other Tristan films, as you can mentally fill in what we assume are still substantial gaps.)

"PTSD" is probably putting it a tad strongly, as we're all very proud indeed of the finished product (although, to be fair, I wasn't involved with the financial side, so I can readily understand a PTSD element there!), but I reckon I personally put in the equivalent of six months' normal-hours full-time work on it, and of course I had other projects to juggle at the same time. Although one considerable bonus was that I was able to (legitimately) charge so much for the subtitling - which all had to be done by ear; i.e. the most expensive kind - that I was able to kit my office out with a proper Dolby Vision-compatible LG OLED 4K screen, which I needed to buy anyway as Indicator were imminently moving into UHD.

- Ishtar mention brought more PTSD. they were clearly so proud of the edition they made. "some politics" they weren't told about until the end. asked if the extras could be released separately on the site...they kinda dance around the answer but then John says very authoritatively "we should do it". so it would be cool - they seem they may be interested in doing it, no copyright involved. contributor paid already! so why not release! also another exciting piece of news.

As Sam said, we'd have to assess the copyright situation - anything incorporating Sony material would be an absolute no-no as they'd never sanction it and we have to take our ongoing relationship with them into account (this is also why the BFI is absolutely scrupulous about dotting and crossing every I and T, because their entire operation depends on maintaining good relationships with rightsholders). So it may be that things have to be re-edited - for instance, if the commentary is released, we'd have to remove the film audio. But we were very very pleased with that disc - which, as Sam said, got to the fully-authored QC stage (in fact, it was mere days away from being sent out as review checkdiscs) - so I'd very much welcome the chance to circulate some of what we'd put together for it.

- talked about Untouched being US only - philosophically they only want to release films uncut, so they are happy to do US only release for this reason. they don't think releasing something that would have to be rather compromised would be worth it.

Yes, I think they made absolutely the right decision. To be fair to the BBFC, their hands were legally tied by the 1937 Cinematograph Films (Animals) Act, but there was no wiggle room - the contentious shot was clearly (and notoriously) carried out for real, specifically for the purposes of making the film, so neither of the Animals Act's loopholes would have applied, so it would have had to come out.

But thus far the BBFC has waved through everything we've submitted in connection with the Rollin project, including a genuinely startling decision on an unambiguously hardcore extra in The Night of the Hunted. And we're over the two big hurdles - The Demoniacs and Requiem for a Vampire, both of which were substantially scissored back in the 1990s.

- sales numbers are increasing in the US. would love to do all titles in both regions but won't happen. a couple Studiocanal titles they know people are disappointed about being US only.

I suspect it's as much because they're Region A as because they're US-only! The problem here is that StudioCanal clearly wants to keep the UK rights for themselves - which we can't argue with; it's their films and their rules - so it's a blunt choice between not releasing them at all or only releasing them in the US (and region-locked). I greatly enjoyed working on both Left, Right and Centre and Family Life (to both of which I made unusually large contributions; my role on Indicator projects usually involves editing/mixing other people's stuff), so I'd be sorry if the choice was "not releasing them at all", but I do completely understand people's frustration.

And thus far Sony and Universal have only licensed titles for the UK only - and standard high definition rights, not UHD. StudioCanal is the only major that's sanctioned UHD releases thus far, with Bruiser. Although I suspect we could have done Impossible Object as UHD too, given the 4K HDR master, but it would have been, to say the least, financially courageous!

thank you for expanding on these where you can, stuff like this is exactly why I have that trust in Indicator that I may not with other labels. I wrote a lot of those bullet points very quickly at like 3am so sorry for saying stuff like "PTSD" which I would normally use humorously (and intended it that way), though it may not have come across as such. the sheer change in Sam and John's (and I swore I saw Sam in the group but I guess not) voices whenever Murphy or Ishtar were mentioned were noticable. I really appreciate the insight into the Murphy box - while I was willing to take the gamble on Rollin, I think Murphy (along with Norman J. Warren and Creatures the World Forgot, among others) is something I can definitely recognize as outside my wheelhouse and won't be giving a shot. but I admit I really have been tempted a few times! it seems fascinating nonetheless. and I appreciate you all's incredible dedication to getting it right.

yes, not to sensationalize and say the Ishtar extras are coming immediately or anything but I did appreciate hearing the drive in their answer to try and make it work. there's no real winning situation there but hopefully it can be gotten to the "film appreciation on YouTube" type deal with no film audio, clips, or anything that would run into issues. I do hope that may be explored in the future for some of the "deleted" titles as well - similar to how you were hoping to rescue your Night of the Shooting Stars track

as a Rollin novice, is there concerns for more of his films thus unreleased so far to have any BBFC issues? I would hate for you guys to have to potentially release one of them as US only when the rest are all dual territory

and regarding the US sales comment - I worded that very poorly, John and Sam both mentioned sales in America in general are going up, and not just of the US only titles. I can understand you all doing Left, Right, and Centre and Family Life just like you did Love on the Dole and Requiem for a Village - Canal don't really have a US arm as much so it's not like they'll do it themselves here, and if they did it's not exactly a title they're going to push through Lionsgate. I totally get the UK consumer's frustration without having access to the US editions, especially as Indicator is a UK label and you all are clearly passionate to champion that sort of British cinema, certainly like people being upset at Arrow's Paramount deal being US only...I totally get it, but I'd rather it be one territory than neither.

that's right, I did just realize all the Sony and Universal titles are UK only. I guess I've just been in the mindset of "oh Kino released these here", not even thinking there hasn't been even one title that was dual territory. I'm glad Canal was willing to play ball to release The Man Who Had Power Over Women stateside, since a website exclusive would normally be prohibitive for an American customer like me, but the irony is I ended up getting the UK edition in the sale anyway!

Thank you Ryan for the detailed summary, and thank you Michael for the transparent insight into how things work behind the scenes.

was inspired by your summary from last year, so thank you!

Yes, thank you Ryan and Michael. I can't stand listening to most podcasts, no matter how interested I am in the content, so I always appreciate these kinds of summaries.

I am generally almost always the exact same way, but I have made an exception for these John/Sam casts and some other physical media related stuff like Chasing Labels and Cereal at Midnight whenever they have someone from the labels on and get asked...I love the transparency, generally from the UK labels of course but I enjoy the odd US one here and there too!

you guys are all welcome and I'm glad to have transcribed