Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[yoloswegmaster]

For anyone confused by the post above, they are referring to this:



Interestingly enough, there was a comment in this thread from a couple days back from saying that they had heard about this Kubrick box as well. Seems like this isn't a very well kept secret lol.

or at this point how much of this is fanboy speculation?

I’ve broken the news on quite a few Criterion releases as far back as fifteen years ago. No fanboy speculation. This is me interfacing with people working on on these projects or restorations or through a contact who knows people working on these things.

Guess I should mention the other set mentioned to me was a Bunuel set, but I remain more skeptical about that for whatever reason as they’ve released two films in close succession and released the smaller set in 2020.

Realized some dopes on Reddit are keeping tabs of what I said and it makes me not want to share news anymore!

To be fair, they did release a couple of Bergman titles right before the boxset came out, so maybe they are doing the same with the Bunuel titles.

[Lowry_Sam]

To be fair, they did release a couple of Bergman titles right before the boxset came out, so maybe they are doing the same with the Bunuel titles.

While I don't doubt there is the will to release Bunuel's collected works, I think a comprehensive box is a long way off. While most of his French films have received 4k restorations, the project to restore his Mexican films has only completed a handful to date that I am aware of (albeit most of the most known titles): Nazarin, El, The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz, Simon Of The Desert, The Exterminating Angel, Virdiana, Gran Casino. MOMA's recent Bunuel in Mexico series included 21 prints from the Cineteca Nacional, so there's probably a lot more work yet to be done on this project. I wouldn't be surprised if we get a 3 films box upgrade before a career spanning box.

[Lowry_Sam]

As mentioned in the other forum, Criterion/Janus also did the restoration for ROBERT WILSON AND THE CIVIL WARS, which is also premeiring at the Ritrovato festival. I've never heard of this, and it appears most people haven't either since only 7 people have this logged on IMDb and 17 on Letterboxd.

In the 80's & 90s there were a number of stage productions (theater, opera, dance) that were filmed (most in NYC) & only ever presented in limited runs or more likely appearing on one of PBS' arts programs. While many probably haven't seen the production, more people are familiar with the music because the soundtrack was released. The Philip Glass soundtrack for this is readily available.

I wonder if we'll see more of these like Twyla Tharp's The Catherine Wheel (David Byrne), The Knee Plays (David Byrne), original productions of Philip Glass' 1st 3 operas (Akhnaten, Einstein On The Beach, Satyagraha). Peter Sellar's production of Nixon In China (Gavin Bryars) is already on blu-ray, so that's not likely.

[beamish14]

As mentioned in the other forum, Criterion/Janus also did the restoration for ROBERT WILSON AND THE CIVIL WARS, which is also premeiring at the Ritrovato festival. I've never heard of this, and it appears most people haven't either since only 7 people have this logged on IMDb and 17 on Letterboxd.

In the 80's & 90s there were a number of stage productions (theater, opera, dance) that were filmed (most in NYC) & only ever presented in limited runs or more likely appearing on one of PBS' arts programs. While many probably haven't seen the production, more people are familiar with the music because the soundtrack was released. The Philip Glass soundtrack for this is readily available.

I wonder if we'll see more of these like Twyla Tharp's The Catherine Wheel (David Byrne), The Knee Plays (David Byrne), original productions of Philip Glass' 1st 3 operas (Akhnaten, Einstein On The Beach, Satyagraha). Peter Sellar's production of Nixon In China (Gavin Bryars) is already on blu-ray, so that's not likely.

You mean John Adams’ Nixon in China!

Michael Nyman’s The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat was televised by Channel 4, I think, and I would love to have it in HD

[Peacock]

No need to defend yourself, I’m sure everyone is grateful for the intel you’ve shared and hopefully will continue to do so for many years to come.

A Buñuel box is interesting, I can only speculate here (based on no intel) that it would be for his first four films up to Land Without Bread… Un Chien Andalou is a banner canonical title that would sell a few sets…. or maybe a three pack from Nazarin to The Young One… but I’d say that’s more risky. I guess seeing as they have Olvidados it could be something centred around that but I’d be surprised if Criterion did a large Mexican period set… hope I’m proven wrong!

[yoloswegmaster]

Un Chien Andalou and L'Age d'Or (as well as Los Olvidados) are with Kino Lorber, so maybe it won't be a complete boxset but maybe a smaller set with a few titles.

Looking back at the tweet from Guillermo Del Toro, he states that he is working with Criterion to release "most of Mexican Bunuel". so I could see a Bunuel in Mexico set minus Los Olvidados and The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz. I wouldn't be surprised if they released Él and Viridiana individually just to test the waters and see if demand is high enough to release more films from that time period.

[kekid]

Los Olvidados and Nazarin are essential. It's a pity that the former is not available to Criterion. But Nazarin has been available in a restroed version but without English subtitles, so Criterion should be able to release it, either as part of a Mexican box or individually.

[Lowry_Sam]

You mean John Adams’ Nixon in China!

Oops. Yes I even have it on disc. I was probably trying to remember if there was also a Bryars production from that time and mixed it up.

Michael Nyman’s The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat was televised by Channel 4, I think, and I would love to have it in HD

I would too.

[DRW.mov]

Un Chien Andalou and L'Age d'Or (as well as Los Olvidados) are with Kino Lorber, so maybe it won't be a complete boxset but maybe a smaller set with a few titles.

Looking back at the tweet from Guillermo Del Toro, he states that he is working with Criterion to release "most of Mexican Bunuel". so I could see a Bunuel in Mexico set minus Los Olvidados and The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz. I wouldn't be surprised if they released Él and Viridiana individually just to test the waters and see if demand is high enough to release more films from that time period.

Los Olvidados is no longer with Kino, it was back in the 90s and most prints you'll see theatrically are still from that restoration, but it was recently taken in and restored by Scorsese's World Cinema Project and it's been confirmed for some time to be coming to Criterion.

Kino does still own Andalou and L'age D'or, but curiously planned a blu-ray around 2020 that still hasn't been released or announced.....

[Drucker]

Please don't change that typo.

[Lowry_Sam]

For what it's worth (nothing), Blu-ray.com lists Los Olvidados as being Criterion (love the cover though), & Un Chien Andalou & L'Age d'Or with no label at all. [Where does he source this info for films unreleased on blu-ray?]

[DRW.mov]

Please don't change that typo.

Freud and whatnot. Buñuel would approve.

[eerik]

For what it's worth (nothing), Blu-ray.com lists Los Olvidados as being Criterion (love the cover though), & Un Chien Andalou & L'Age d'Or with no label at all. [Where does he source this info for films unreleased on blu-ray?]

Anybody can update Blu-ray.com's database. They do not ask for sources or proof. I stopped contributing there years ago when a bunch of my correctly submitted data was overwritten with incorrect information, while some of my (again, correct and legit) submissions were rejected for no good reason.

[yoloswegmaster]

Un Chien Andalou and L'Age d'Or (as well as Los Olvidados) are with Kino Lorber, so maybe it won't be a complete boxset but maybe a smaller set with a few titles.

Looking back at the tweet from Guillermo Del Toro, he states that he is working with Criterion to release "most of Mexican Bunuel". so I could see a Bunuel in Mexico set minus Los Olvidados and The Criminal Life of Archibaldo de la Cruz. I wouldn't be surprised if they released Él and Viridiana individually just to test the waters and see if demand is high enough to release more films from that time period.

Los Olvidados is no longer with Kino, it was back in the 90s and most prints you'll see theatrically are still from that restoration, but it was recently taken in and restored by Scorsese's World Cinema Project and it's been confirmed for some time to be coming to Criterion.

Kink does still own Andalou and L'age D'or, but curiously planned a blu-ray around 2020 that still hasn't been released or announced.....

That makes more sense since I'm realizing now that the Olvidados screenings at BAMPFA and American Cinematheque were for 35mm screenings and both list Kink Lorber as the licensor.

I saw the restorations for both short films in February and they had the Kink Lorber logo play at the start, so they definitely still have the rights to those. It should be noted that the restoration for Andalou was completed in 2021, so maybe that's why the blu was delayed at the time. Shame they haven't done anything with it though for all these years.

[Lowry_Sam]

I saw the restorations for both short films in February and they had the Kink Lorber logo play at the start, so they definitely still have the rights to those. It should be noted that the restoration for Andalou was completed in 2021, so maybe that's why the blu was delayed at the time. Shame they haven't done anything with it though for all these years.

How often does Kinko & Criterion negotiate with each other over rights? UHD titles have gone to Kinko only to return to Criterion (and probably more if and when a Kubrick box materializes), which can only lead to speculation about what kind of deal/s they may make with each other (hello 100th anniversary of Metropolis in 2027 ) that may or may not involve streaming (as many Kino titles show up on the channel). Of course, the lack of a Kino blu for those if they still have the rights does raise questions as Kino isn't usually hesitant to release things.

The real head-scratcher for me though is VCI (who normally do public domain releases) releasing the actual 4k restoration of The Criminal Life Of Archibaldo de la Cruz (and not some older unrestored print) on blu-ray ...how did that happen?

[TVC15]

[yoloswegmaster]

How often does Kinko & Criterion negotiate with each other over rights? UHD titles have gone to Kinko only to return to Criterion (and probably more if and when a Kubrick box materializes), which can only lead to speculation about what kind of deal/s they may make with each other (hello 100th anniversary of Metroplois in 2027 ) that may or may not involve streaming (as many Kino titles show up on the channel). Of course, the lack of a Kino blu for those if they still have the rights does raise questions as Kino isn't usually hesitant to release things.

I don't think they have ever negotiated deals for physical releases, at least to the best of my knowledge. The only UHD titles that KL grabbed over Criterion were for MGM titles. In fact, KL were planning on keeping those titles in-print and were even planning on re-releasing the Kubrick titles in a boxset with their own booklet before MGM made them lose the rights and gave them back to Criterion.

Crazy I forgot about Kink Lorber Insider's response from 4 years ago.

[senseabove]

Notably, that response was from before the BAMPFA screening in September 2023, which still listed Kino as the rights provider, so they truly don't seem to know what's going on in the division of Kino that handles Los Olvidados. You can use anyone's print for a screening and perform a restoration as long as you have access to the materials, but you still need to consult the rights holder to screen the film. DRW.mov may very well know something, but I don't think we've seen any public evidence that Kino has lost the rights...

[DRW.mov]

What I know is the whats on the World Cinema Project website: https://www.film-foundation.org/world-c ... r=1&page=3

World Cinema Project is both a restoration project but also holds the rights to all the titles they restore, at least within the US.

[senseabove]

I mean, the Film Foundation restoration premiered in 2019, and we know Kino still had the rights as late as 2023. Given that the FF restoration hasn't had a release in the six and a half years since the restoration premiere, it certainly seems like this one's an unusual case. This Academy Museum screening from 2025 does say "Screening courtesy of Televisa Foundation–Univision Foundation," so maybe something has changed recently, though.

[DeprongMori]

As mentioned in the other forum, Criterion/Janus also did the restoration for ROBERT WILSON AND THE CIVIL WARS, which is also premeiring at the Ritrovato festival. I've never heard of this, and it appears most people haven't either since only 7 people have this logged on IMDb and 17 on Letterboxd.

In the 80's & 90s there were a number of stage productions (theater, opera, dance) that were filmed (most in NYC) & only ever presented in limited runs or more likely appearing on one of PBS' arts programs. While many probably haven't seen the production, more people are familiar with the music because the soundtrack was released. The Philip Glass soundtrack for this is readily available.

I wonder if we'll see more of these like Twyla Tharp's The Catherine Wheel (David Byrne), The Knee Plays (David Byrne), original productions of Philip Glass' 1st 3 operas (Akhnaten, Einstein On The Beach, Satyagraha). Peter Sellar's production of Nixon In China (Gavin Bryars) is already on blu-ray, so that's not likely.

Robert Wilson’s stage series the CIVIL warS: a tree is best measured when it is down was a massive, multi-play/opera project that has never been performed in its entirety. I was fortunate to have seen several of the parts performed back in the day. The Knee Plays, with music by David Byrne, were a part of the larger project and consisted of shorter interstitial theatrical pieces to join the larger parts together.

I’m really looking forward to seeing the documentary, either at BAMPFA or Il Cinema Ritrovato.

[Lowry_Sam]

So it's a documentary on the attempt to present the complete opera at the '84 LA Olympics & not a filmed performance? Bummer, I'll still probably watch it at some point but less likely to seek it out on disc.

[hearthesilence]

Re: Buñuel, I'm guessing it's a box set focused on his Mexican work because the masters/restorations are available. It may not be comprehensive, but truth be told, his Mexican films weren't uniformly great - quite a few played more like commercial works meant to appeal to a broad audience, not bad but not nearly as imaginative and inspired as his best work. I imagine a box set focused on the best of the Mexican films will sell better, and in all honesty, it's what I'd prefer.

[Matt]

We did a poll for most-wanted Criterion releases about 22 years ago on this forum and a Mexican Buñuel box set was #1. I'll take any Mexican Buñuel I can get. Some I've only ever seen on VHS tapes borrowed from the Cuyahoga County Public Library in the early '90s, but they had a lot of them.

[guyetgenevieve]

The Mike Mills set was initially announced as a July 28th release, but it looks like it's been bumped up a week. No releases currently schedule for the 28th.