Criterion Discussion and Random Speculation Volume 7

[MovieBuff647]

It's hilarious seeing all these people online say they're not going to buy Wild at Heart until the Lynch set comes out when there is a decent chance it won't be a film set.

Not sure if you saw but a Lynch fan account on Twitter confirmed there is no complete filmography set coming and then someone else in the Criterion thread on the Blu-Ray dot com forums confirmed this was true. The latter individual also added Criterion are well aware there’s demand for them to release TWIN PEAKS in particular but there’s no chance of that happening either as licensing it would be a nightmare for them.

Also, someone pointed out elsewhere Janus recently picked up Dynamic:01 so that's probably what the Lynch thing they're working on is. But I also think it's possible StudioCanal, who have the Germany/France rights to nearly all of his work, are planning something big for those two countries, and it's likely Jennifer got the two mixed up.

All said, Lynch is a top three filmmaker for me—my single favorite of his is probably INLAND EMPIRE, though until recently I might've said TWIN PEAKS: THE RETURN (saw both around the same time over two years ago), but I utterly adore both, MULHOLLAND DRIVE, FWWM, and love most of his work generally—and yet I never understood the point of Criterion releasing a Lynch filmography set given they’ve already released most of his work on UHD individually and they sell extraordinarily well even when some of them have superior alternatives from other non-US labels and, if they did release a filmography set, would likely just recycle the same existing discs. The only way it ever made sense to me is if it were a ploy to get Paramount to play ball vis-a-vis TWIN PEAKS and that always seemed like a long shot, especially when Lynch sadly isn’t even alive to sign off on it.

Edit: Missed this, whoops.

To be taken with a grain of salt. From the other forum a person with connections to Criterion, they will not be doing a Lynch box.

Here

Also, on an unrelated note: though I do own a 4K setup, I am a dual format person and thus share the frustrations of Criterion seemingly moving away from that, especially given how great many of their discs have been this year.

Thank you, TFN, I forgot that Chris had put these together. I hope Paramount would be flexible about Rosemary's Baby if Criterion asked for it. Their own UHD has been out for a while and the film deserves the best possible presentation.

I'd love for Criterion to get ROSEMARY'S BABY back but I think it's evident that they're sadly not interested in releasing any Polanski at the moment. They still haven't upgraded KNIFE IN THE WATER to Blu-Ray!

[James Stock]

Yes, I'm well aware a movie set isn't happening and it'll probably be a shorts set. That's why I said that in the first place.

[MovieBuff647]

Yeah I missed that someone else here linked my post from the other site sharing the original source and edited my post to reflect that, apologies.

[MovieBuff647]

Is there proof they passed on Sunrise? I agree that it would be exceptionally foolish to pass on that. Did Disney fund the new restoration or was it from another source considering it’s now public domain?

AFAICT the new restoration (which is actually three restorations: the Movietone version, the Czechoslovak version, and the Dutch version) had no involvement from Disney. It was spearheaded by the San Francisco Film Preserve with funding from a Minnesota nonprofit aptly called the Sunrise Foundation for Education and the Arts. I imagine the film's public domain status is the reason this project happened in the first place.

Also BFI were involved.

[MovieBuff647]

DOCTOR ZHIVAGO has a 4K DCP! This is one I can see coming from WBHE, Warner Archive, or Criterion.

https://www.academymuseum.org/programs/ ... c983b6d891

[Walter Kurtz]

That would be impressive if WA or Criterion landed the ninth largest grossing film in the history of domestic cinema, adjusted for inflation. Impressive but unlikely.

[Zot!]

That would be impressive if WA or Criterion landed the ninth largest grossing film in the history of domestic cinema, adjusted for inflation. Impressive but unlikely.

Even more impressive when you consider it is hardly domestic at all. But the audience that saw this in 1965 is probably not buying 4Ks, so its previous box office performance has likely faded into antiquity.

[Walter Kurtz]

"Domestic" meaning US and Canada box office. I'm certainly not being provincial considering I saw fifty French films last year and only four "domestic" ones. "Domestic" meaning its pretty difficult to get global box office numbers for 60 year-old films . And how the hell would you inflate 50 different countries much less measure purchasing power parity. Yeah, that's a thing. But thanks for letting me know that Alec Guinness and Julie Christie and Ralph Richardson and Omar Sharif and Tom Courtenay aren't Yanks. Damn. And Guinness is my favorite beer! I thought I was being patriotic. And it is a pity, isn't it, that old people go and die on us. But fear not, I will not let this film fade into antiquity along with our venerated elders. I shall keep eternal vigil over the greatness of the Doctor Zhivago domestic box office!

[Zot!]

I am unclear what point you are trying to make, but mine was that, yeah, it is impressive that a for-all-intents-and-purposes "foreign" film holds this ranking. My other point was that I am doubting that this film still holds quite the same blockbuster qualifications today, and would not be shocked if Criterion released it, like they once have with Lawrence of Arabia.

[James Stock]

DOCTOR ZHIVAGO has a 4K DCP! This is one I can see coming from WBHE, Warner Archive, or Criterion.

https://www.academymuseum.org/programs/ ... c983b6d891

This DCP has been around for a while and the bd was from the same 4k master.

[domino harvey]

I like the film, but I don’t think Criterion would be interested in it. Hard to imagine their core audience these day snatching it up. If there’s a UHD coming, I suspect it would be from WA (where this film very much fits in)

[FrauBlucher]

I’m in total agreement with Domino. Wasn’t this title in that WB anniversary box set from a few years ago?

[MovieBuff647]

DOCTOR ZHIVAGO has a 4K DCP! This is one I can see coming from WBHE, Warner Archive, or Criterion.

https://www.academymuseum.org/programs/ ... c983b6d891

This DCP has been around for a while and the bd was from the same 4k master.

Yeah, I recall reading the BD is sourced from a 4K remaster, even if you can hardly tell given how poorly that disc has aged due to being a VC-1 codec.

That said, given the titling—and timing being right around RYAN'S DAUGHTER 4K coming from WAC—I am wondering if this is a newer 4K remaster from the same raw scan, or if it is still a sign that a 4K disc release is in the pipeline, even with the same existing master.

I like the film, but I don’t think Criterion would be interested in it. Hard to imagine their core audience these day snatching it up. If there’s a UHD coming, I suspect it would be from WA (where this film very much fits in)

Definitely feels like a WAC title to me as well, given its decline in popularity and the fact that they're releasing RYAN'S DAUGHTER 4K soon.

[MovieBuff647]

Gregg Araki apparently confirmed at a screening that MYSTERIOUS SKIN is set for Q1 or early Q2 2027.

https://www.reddit.com/r/criterion/s/ZBaHFT3P6a

[Lowry_Sam]

If Criterion were to release a David Lean historical epic, I'd like to think they'd choose Lawrence before Zhivago. Growing up in the 70s & 80s, Doctor Zhivago always seemed to air every year around Christmas time. I think I tried watching a few times, but always fell asleep. I imagine I would appreciate it more today, but it's tv legacy inspires as much enthusiasm as I would have for Patton or Cleopatra or Gone With The Wind or any of the other 3+ hr Hollywood classic movies that I would fall asleep to as a kid.

[MovieBuff647]

If Criterion were to release a David Lean historical epic, I'd like to think they'd choose Lawrence before Zhivago. Growing up in the 70s & 80s, Doctor Zhivago always seemed to air every year around Christmas time. I think I tried watching a few times, but always fell asleep. I imagine I would appreciate it more today, but it's tv legacy inspires as much enthusiasm as I would have for Patton or Cleopatra or Gone With The Wind or any of the other 3+ hr Hollywood classic movies that I would fall asleep to as a kid.

An argument could be made that DOCTOR ZHIVAGO would be easier to license given Sony are pissf*cks to deal with, but I'm now leaning Warner Archive for DZ for three reasons:

1) WB BD has been OOP in the US for a while, and there are several examples of former WB BDs going OOP and then WAC bringing them back in print (though this would obviously be brand new discs).

2) Fallen off in popularity over the years but with just enough of a base and demand that it would fit and sell extremely well.

3) This screening timing is coincidentally right around their 4K/BD release of RYAN'S DAUGHTER.

[Ribs]

I had thought Lean would have been an interesting follow up candidate for a complete works set, and Lawrence of Arabia a similar situation to 2001 where I’m not really sure we need a new release from Criterion but in the full context of a set we will gladly take one with the marginal encoding improvements possible - but the Warner announcement of Ryan’s Daughter, whose rediscovery I would have viewed as a major centerpiece of such a set, has made it clear that won’t happen.

Something I do wonder is, given the Arrow news about Dirty Dozen, and Forbidden Planet, is if its reasonably possible they will be doing some marquee non-genre classic studio titles as well, like Zhivago or maybe something like Bad and the Beautiful or similar. It is amazing to get all these WB titles from Arrow I could not have imagined with boutique treatment and am kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop where they begin going to classic Hollywood.

[MovieBuff647]

I had thought Lean would have been an interesting follow up candidate for a complete works set, and Lawrence of Arabia a similar situation to 2001 where I’m not really sure we need a new release from Criterion but in the full context of a set we will gladly take one with the marginal encoding improvements possible - but the Warner announcement of Ryan’s Daughter, whose rediscovery I would have viewed as a major centerpiece of such a set, has made it clear that won’t happen.

Something I do wonder is, given the Arrow news about Dirty Dozen, and Forbidden Planet, is if its reasonably possible they will be doing some marquee non-genre classic studio titles as well, like Zhivago or maybe something like Bad and the Beautiful or similar. It is amazing to get all these WB titles from Arrow I could not have imagined with boutique treatment and am kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop where they begin going to classic Hollywood.

LAWRENCE OF ARABIA 4K—which, at least per Geoff D, has not quite lived up to its reputation—would be mere encoding improvements from Criterion if they got it as Sony are extremely restrictive towards labels. Of the recent and upcoming Criterion 4Ks of Sony titles, the only one that was definitely a Criterion remaster rather than a Sony remaster is LIFE OF BRIAN, and I imagine Sony only having the physical rights now was a factor there. From the Criterion site caps alone, MARIE ANTOINETTE 100% looks like a Sony remaster rather than a Criterion/Lee Kline one.

2001, on the other hand, is a far more flawed studio 4K from WB, including extremely un-filmic and CRT-adjacent color grading presumably due to Nolan's involvement. What Criterion will be doing with that one, like the other ones licensed from WB with pre-existing studio 4Ks, is a restoration overhaul.

As for whether Arrow is a contender for DOCTOR ZHIVAGO, hard to say. What's interesting is how many WB-licensed titles from Criterion and Arrow would easily fit at the other label—Arrow still have NETWORK in the UK (where MGM own it due to being a joint MGM/UA production and the split distribution rights) and will likely upgrade it to 4K at some point, POINT BLANK and DELIVERANCE would've fit perfectly at Arrow alongside EXCALIBUR, THE RIGHT STUFF and THE WILD BUNCH are films Arrow definitely would've been interested in, while CONTACT, FORBIDDEN PLANET, and THE DIRTY DOZEN all would've fit perfectly at Criterion; and then Criterion were rumored to have gotten PEDICAB DRIVER as part of the same deal involving THE BLADE, dwk said around when the latter was announced that he found out Criterion don't have PEDICAB DRIVER after all, and then Arrow soft-announce it less than a year later via one of their postcards—which I 100% agree has been something of a dream come true. Hope the rumor that they have Bob Rafelson's THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE is true as well!

That said, for now, I am leaning Warner Archive re: DOCTOR ZHIVAGO.

[FlickeringWindow]

Feel like Lawrence would be a strange Criterion given how all there is left for them would be a slightly better encode and maybe a commentary track. They could also possibly include the premiere cut in full (with the full balcony scene and one alternate shot) and perhaps the first recut, but none of these seem essential. Now if they did a complete Lean box in 4K that's a different story, but even that seems unlikely as it would require at least half a dozen ITV films to get new 4K restorations.

[beamish14]

Feel like Lawrence would be a strange Criterion given how all there is left for them would be a slightly better encode and maybe a commentary track. They could also possibly include the premiere cut in full (with the full balcony scene and one alternate shot) and perhaps the first recut, but none of these seem essential. Now if they did a complete Lean box in 4K that's a different story, but even that seems unlikely as it would require at least half a dozen ITV films to get new 4K restorations.

I’d love to get A Passage to India, but I’m guessing it’s so problematic that they just wouldn’t touch it. An otherwise wonderful film marred by one of the inexcusably disgusting casting choices of the last 70 years

[domino harvey]

So no the Party in your predix either?

[MovieBuff647]

Not sure if this was already mentioned here, but Criterion presumably do have—or are at least in the process of negotiating for—MANHUNTER for the US.

Jesse @ Diabolik already confirmed a US release is coming but not from Lionsgate or Kino (thankfully!). Seems quite obvious who'd have it, especially given I heard from a buddy of mine MGM do in fact still have the US physical rights despite Rialto (StudioCanal's sister company) handling the US theatrical reissue. I can't go into any specifics beyond that but there may be some…licensing complications, so nothing is set in stone just yet, but I think Criterion and Mann have enough pull to make it work.

[crimlaw]

A Passage to India would be an excellent addition to the collection, regardless of the ‘problematic’ casting.

[Matt]

They’ve put out films with actors in blackface and included contextualizing, scholarly interviews. I’m sure they could do the same here. But again, it’s Sony, so unlikely to happen in any case.

The Collection needs more Judy Davis, though.

[The Narrator Returns]

A High Tide restoration would be a revelation, it needs to happen from them or somebody.