Criterion and Dual Format

[domino harvey]

Well, who wouldn't be persuaded after that stellar defense?

[ShellOilJunior]

I could do without the extra DVD's but as long as Criterion includes them I might as well list them on eBay.

I've seen the Zatoichi set (DVD only w/no case) go for around $50. Most single releases tend to sell for $5-$15 - DVD only, no case (except a paper sleeve).

[Vegeta84]

I literally just found out about this today. I only collects DVD's so this is good news for me.

Has Criterion offerend any explanation on the move?

[swo17]

Here

[Vegeta84]

Here

That's a cool read, but that's why they are going dual. I was wondering why they went back to stand alone DVD's when it seemed like that was no longer an option?

[swo17]

Oh, that wasn't clear from your question. Criterion hasn't made a statement about that, but we've been speculating about some of the reasons over the last three pages of this thread.

[Vegeta84]

Oh, that wasn't clear from your question. Criterion hasn't made a statement about that, but we've been speculating about some of the reasons over the last three pages of this thread.

Sorry about that. Yeah, my question was vague. Thanks anyways. Really wonder what happened.

[giovannii84]

Oh, that wasn't clear from your question. Criterion hasn't made a statement about that, but we've been speculating about some of the reasons over the last three pages of this thread.

Sorry about that. Yeah, my question was vague. Thanks anyways. Really wonder what happened.

I'm thinking it might be a market research test. Now that dual formats have been around a few months, lets see how many people still buy the stand alone DVD product when there's a dual format alternative. If they find the Dual format vs DVD split is now 80:20, it proves the dual format move is working.

The Blu-ray only upgrades could be because they may have a very high number of surplus inventory, that it isn't worth producing a dual format edition until the DVD copies sell out. This way they are still doing one big run without the extra waste.

What does everyone else think?

[Minkin]

Well, I had my first Dual-Format casualty. My copy of Fantastic Mr Fox arrived. The case was in perfect condition (no dents/bumps/anything) but the supplements DVD had deep scratches on it - which caused the disc to skip. Even a good cleaning did nothing to help. It appears that the disc was scratched by the hub of the disc underneath it (I had something similar happen to the DVD in my Flicker Alley "This is Cinerama" dual format). I think the problem must have originated back at manufacturing.

I might suggest other people double check their copies (since my digipack case has no signs of destruction).

Edit:

I noticed that the discs were in the wrong location. The Blu-ray was underneath the supplements on the DVD side, whereas the main movie DVD disc was in the bluray's spot on the right. The supplement disc (the damaged/unplayable one) also had ink residue on it. I suspect I simply received a bum set with some manufacturing defects. Oh well, back it goes.

[Frumaster]

I'm a little baffled by all the negative "digipack" responses. I see no fundamental difference between this packaging and the "box set" packaging I always thought was a bonus for the DVD releases of Seven Samurai, Breathless, Fanny and Alexander, Amarcord, etc. Was there a similar backlash against that packaging? I don't think so.

Embrace a little variety!

[jindianajonz]

I love digipacks, but I think the problem people have centers on the fact that they take up more room and often arrive damaged in the mail.

[tenia]

I noticed that the discs were in the wrong location. The Blu-ray was underneath the supplements on the DVD side, whereas the main movie DVD disc was in the bluray's spot on the right. The supplement disc (the damaged/unplayable one) also had ink residue on it. I suspect I simply received a bum set with some manufacturing defects. Oh well, back it goes.

I received mine with this discs configuration, and the pictures on Amazon product page also has this discs configuration. However, I didn't have any issues with any of the 3 discs.

I love digipacks, but I think the problem people have centers on the fact that they take up more room and often arrive damaged in the mail.

From what I heard, the most common issues are indeed the slightly higher thickness, the disharmonisation it creates (plus, it's slightly higher and larger than Scanavo cases), and the ease of damage without any possibility of replacements (meaning : you can buy spare Scanavo cases, but how can you quick-fix a damaged digi ?).

[felipe]

I don't get why they're also releasing Picnic at Hanging Rock on a dvd-only edition. Wasn't it the whole point of going dual-format, not having to put out dvd-only releases anymore?

[tenia]

Actually, Criterion is starting to issue more and more DVD editions on side of their DF releases.

Scanners is getting a 2-DVD release while A Hard Day's Night is getting a 1-DVD only release (losing most of the extra features). And then, you alsi have Judex, Red River, Like Someone In Love, Il Sorpasso, Master of the House, Riot In Cell Block 11, La grande bellezza, A Brief History of Time.

As for re-releases : Pickpocket is getting a new DVD as Picnic At Hanging Rock, but all the other re-releases won't (Hearts And Minds, L'eclisse, Ace In The Hole, George Washington, The Hidden Fortress, Jules And Jim, All That Heaven Allows, Breathless and The 400 Blows), so it seems their DVD-only releases will become OOP at some point.

Since Tess (Feb 25th), almost all new spines also get a DVD-only release, with only 3 out 14 not getting one (Persona, The Freshman, Breaking The Waves). And since the switch to DF, 2 out of 7 re-releases are getting a DVD-only release (also all releases post-Tess).

It seems to me that this move which was advertised as very simple has now gotten very complicated for Criterion. They said it was to simplify the number of references they were producing, but it seems to me it is now even worse than before if they start to do 3-discs DF + 1-disc DVD only (they will probably have 2 different artworks for the main DVD to get rid of the "disc one" indication). They are now back with 2 references by title for a whopping 78% of their new spines (62% when you include re-releases) since Tess.

[Yaanu]

I'm pretty sure I remarked about this move before, but since I'm a jerk I'll say it again.

I think that the different Dual-Format/DVD releases being made are to appease the people who still insist on purchasing single-format releases, or at least DVD-only releases. They're also obviously trying to make things difficult/unappealing for those crowds as well, cutting down on extra supplements in those non-dual-format releases. Of course, there's always the off-chance that they're producing DVD-only releases to meet their quota with Scanavo; as soon as they can get rid of all of those plastic cases, the DVD-only releases are right out.

[jwd5275]

I think it also has to do with institutions like public libraries and schools being less willing to pay more of their already meager budget to buy blu-rays, especially when it seems redundant. Most of these places have huge dvd collections and likely see no reason to start over with blu-rays, especially when dvds are still quite common and available.

[swo17]

My local library system has fortunately been acquiring several of the dual format editions where a DVD-only edition is also an option.

[FrauBlucher]

Perhaps SONY is responsible for what we are seeing in terms of disc management.

The Criterion Collection has announced a deal to release its products through Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, who’ll handle “distribution, replication, inventory management, shipping, and accounts receivable” for the company.

[felipe]

It's odd because when they announced dual-format virtually all of the titles were being released in dual-format editions, and now, months later, we are seeing more and more dvd-only releases, which might be a sign something didn't go according to the plan.

[swo17]

Everything is still being released in dual format for the collectors. It's just that since the April releases, many titles are now also being made available in budget DVD editions.

[warren oates]

It's obvious what didn't go according to plan: the shot-callers who buy media at big institutions either didn't understand the upgrade or, even if they were enlightened to the advantages of Blu-ray like Matt, had both institutional and budgetary reasons why it didn't matter and they'd prefer the option of lower res, slightly cheaper stand alone DVDs -- even if it meant sacrificing a portion of the extras that create the educational value which, beyond mere A/V quality standards and title availability, is why they are buying Criterion releases for their libraries in the first place. Such thinking, like Jake says of of his wife's steak cooking in Raging Bull: "defeats its own purpose."

[Gregory]

I think it also has to do with institutions like public libraries and schools being less willing to pay more of their already meager budget to buy blu-rays, especially when it seems redundant. Most of these places have huge dvd collections and likely see no reason to start over with blu-rays, especially when dvds are still quite common and available.

My understanding based on library employees I've talked with is that there is always a big problem with DVDs and CDs getting scratched up by patrons who don't handle them right, and they have to deal with lots of these going onto something like a "problem shelf" and getting discarded. So in many cases, DVDs are constantly being added and removed from circulation and it wouldn't really be a matter of "starting over" with a newer format, which could very likely prove more durable and a better investment of even a meager budget for acquiring movies. Of course, many libraries may not be aware of the better scratch resistance of blu-rays.

[jwd5275]

Actually, my library system takes the scratched DVDs and repairs them. It only takes them out of circulation for a matter of a couple weeks. There also are likely other demographic factors in play here, such as how likely the patrons are to have a blu-ray player.

[swo17]

My library still categorizes the dual format releases as DVDs, with the Blu-ray included as a kind of bonus disc. So they aren't having to "start over" with a new format.

[felipe]

It's obvious what didn't go according to plan: the shot-callers who buy media at big institutions either didn't understand the upgrade or, even if they were enlightened to the advantages of Blu-ray like Matt, had both institutional and budgetary reasons why it didn't matter and they'd prefer the option of lower res, slightly cheaper stand alone DVDs -- even if it meant sacrificing a portion of the extras that create the educational value which, beyond mere A/V quality standards and title availability, is why they are buying Criterion releases for their libraries in the first place. Such thinking, like Jake says of of his wife's steak cooking in Raging Bull: "defeats its own purpose."

Ok, but didn't Criterion see this coming before making the decision to go dual? It seems to me that now having to produce a dvd-only version and a blu-ray version with a "free" dvd (or two) will generate even higher costs than before.